Winchester Reloading Tool Experience?

[Karl]

My lovely wife is very fond of her old .38S&W firing pistols.  She lucked out some time back and found an old Winchester reloading tool for .38S&W:

It was missing the two inserts.  I found a new made deprimer insert (which is not quite long enough?)  Does anyone here have any experience with these (or Ideal Loading Tools) and know where to find replacement inserts? 

[Karl]

What started this whole antique reloading tool business was our old posse threatening to hold a "blanket shoot" where shooters started day with lead ingots, powder, primers, and a blanket to sit on while they prepared their ammo for the day's competition.  It took a while for us to begin to take a liking to this idea and start getting gear together (like cheap Lee reloaders) then we moved ranges and it never happened.  Our new posse has not taken a liking to this plot yet.     

[Thumper]

I had one for my 32 wcf. It works fine but only for black powder. The tool doesn't create a crimp on the shell, so to keep the slug from backing down in a magazine it has to rest on a pillar of powder.

[JimBob]

My lovely wife is very fond of her old .38S&W firing pistols.  She lucked out some time back and found an old Winchester reloading tool for .38S&W:

It was missing the two inserts.  I found a new made deprimer insert (which is not quite long enough?)  Does anyone here have any experience with these (or Ideal Loading Tools) and know where to find replacement inserts? 

Those "inserts" are called de-capping pins.The one closest to your tool is for the Ideal tool not the Winchester.

Winchester offered several reloading tools over the years,that one is the M1882 tool.One source for the de-capping pin is e-bay but might take awhile.

[Karl]

Those "inserts" are called de-capping pins.The one closest to your tool is for the Ideal tool not the Winchester.

Winchester offered several reloading tools over the years,that one is the M1882 tool.One source for the de-capping pin is e-bay but might take awhile.

I found a .38S&W de-capping insert on Ebay but even with the hardened steel pin extended all the way it is too short to push out a primer let alone reach the brass if I reverse it(?)

Thumper - from what you are saying, am I wrong to expect the insert to be long enough to flare the brass? 

I am obviously misunderstanding exactly how this tool works.  Maybe over thinking it.  I usually use a Lee loading press which works just fine with .38S&W dies too.  Does this tool just not flare and crimp at all?  Is it simply supposed to push out the primer, set a new primer (at least it does that well), then with a reversed de-capper, push the slug in?   I sort of thought that the de-capper reversed would flare then there should be a separate setter/crimper.....? 


Is this a complete tool set then? 

Gentlemen, while I am asking about these old reloading tools.  Have you ever seen an Ideal tool for .44 Webley or .44 Bulldog ammo? 


I found a nice little .44 "English" Bulldog then the Bulldog brass which I can load .440 rb over bp with a Lee .44 loader but it would sure be nice to find one of these tools with a mold, IF such a thing was ever even made.  Someday I might even make a CAS which calls for a da pocket pistol like this.   

[JimBob]

Instructions for the Winchester's Cartridge Reloading Tool-

To remove the primer,place the primer extracting plug inside the shell,so that the pin will enter the hole in the head of the shell;then place the shell with plug into the die,and by pressing the handles together,forces out the primer.

To inset new primer,start it squarely into the pocket by hand,then put the shell into the hole through the lower lever,and press the primer home by bringing the lever together.

To load the cartridge,put in the shell the charge cup full of powder,and on top of this place such wads or lubricants as the kind of cartridge may require;start in the ball by hand,then having placed it into the die,bring the handles together by a steady pressure,and the cartridge will be finished and swaged to the original size.Remove the cartridge from the die by opening the levers with a sharp,quick motion
To prevent the cartridge from sticking in the die,a drop of oil should be put in occasionally.

If you look at the decapping pin in your last post,if used correctly,that ring on the recapping pin flares the cartridge mouth when you de-cap.The rounded end goes to the bottom of the fixed die in the handle.

A complete reloading boxed set consisted of the handles,de-capping pin,powder cup for that cartridge,and a bullet mold.

In looking through the Ideal catalogs I have available I find no listing for the .44 Webley or "Bull Dog".But you never say never where Ideal tools are concerned,the oddball unlisted calibers do turn up.

[Karl]

Instructions for the Winchester's Cartridge Reloading Tool-

To remove the primer,place the primer extracting plug inside the shell,so that the pin will enter the hole in the head of the shell;then place the shell with plug into the die,and by pressing the handles together,forces out the primer.

To inset new primer,start it squarely into the pocket by hand,then put the shell into the hole through the lower lever,and press the primer home by bringing the lever together.

To load the cartridge,put in the shell the charge cup full of powder,and on top of this place such wads or lubricants as the kind of cartridge may require;start in the ball by hand,then having placed it into the die,bring the handles together by a steady pressure,and the cartridge will be finished and swaged to the original size.Remove the cartridge from the die by opening the levers with a sharp,quick motion
To prevent the cartridge from sticking in the die,a drop of oil should be put in occasionally.

If you look at the decapping pin in your last post,if used correctly,that ring on the recapping pin flares the cartridge mouth when you de-cap.The rounded end goes to the bottom of the fixed die in the handle.

A complete reloading boxed set consisted of the handles,de-capping pin,powder cup for that cartridge,and a bullet mold.

In looking through the Ideal catalogs I have available I find no listing for the .44 Webley or "Bull Dog".But you never say never where Ideal tools are concerned,the oddball unlisted calibers do turn up.

The trick of putting the de-capping insert in the shell first worked.

Trying to set the .38 S&W bullet with no insert was not even close.  The chamber is at least a 1/4" too long.  Looking at this I had a suspicion so I tried a .38 Special.  My Winchester tool which is clearly stamped .38 S&W set and crimped the .38 Special about perfectly.     Mystery solved, I guess.  Even though my wife has a Marlin that will shoot .38 Special she is not overly amused either. 

[w44wcf]

Karl,
When the .38 Special was first introduuced, it was named the .38 S&W Special as this early b.p. cartridge box indicates.



Unfortunately Winchester left the "Special" off the tool identification.

w44wcf

[Thumper]

Ir flared the shells fine, but with the final seating of the bullet, the shell was basically just a stovepipe shape, no crimp.