Accurracy Question Remington Army New Model Revolver

[carbineone]

I have asked a few other questions here and have gotten good responses so thought I would ask this.

I have a Original Remington Army .44 made in 1863, and till today I have only shot it for fun. Today I took a short time to see how it would group,or not group. I was shooting from a Bench at 25 yards. I was resting the butt on the table. Take into account also that my eyesight is not the best anymore. I was shooting .457 round Balls with synthetic grease over the balls. I was using 22 grains of Pyrodex with 20 grains of cream of wheat filler on top the powder. Used CCI caps but that should not effect anything.

Anyway these were somewhat hastily shot, but I got 5 rounds in a 4 inch group and one strayed out to around 5 or 6 inches,probably human error there. I can maybe do a little better in nicer weather and taking a more time to shoot and aim, but are these groups what I would expect from a 150 year old Revolver or is that not near the capability the Old Girl once had?..Thanks for any input..

[cpt dan blodgett]

Your pistol shoots minute of heart at 25 yards with self admitted poor eyes and a 150 year old bore.  You may get better groups with different loads and conditions, but it appears to still produce lethal results.

[carbineone]

Thanks, I am really actually pretty happy with what it did today. But then again I ask because I do not know what it may have done even when new..I did have my Doctor Dollar spectacles on. I get em for a dollar apiece at the Dollar store. They help me see the sights better but not the target

[Flint]

You might get better groups if you keep the butt off the table.  Try a sandbag.

My original S&W Russian outshot my S&W 29.  The black powder guns are as accurate as a modern of loaded properly.  In many calibers, especially at long range, black powder is more accurate than smokeless.

[rifle]

Not knowing what the bore is like it would be difficult to say whether or not the gun is shooting to "it's" potential. Then there's the forcing cone and the breech end of the barrel and the corrosion in the chambers that would have wear on them and affect the shooting.
being an old gun and all I'd give it a handicap and fire it at 20 paces instead of 25. There seems to be an unproportional warp in time and space between 20 and 25 yards. 
I'd bet there would be more like 2-3 inch groups average at 20 paces.
There's the fouling to consider too. If you want to know what the gun is actually capable of doing then take out the cylinder and run a wet patch thru the barrel after every shot to shoot thru a clean barrel. Load each chamber one at a time to run thru all six.
OR.......leave well enough alone and clean the old War Horse real good and put it in a "place of honor" and......get an Italian clone to shoot the ever livin crap outta it and have some fun and wear the clone out instead of more wear on the original.
You would think every time you saw the original that you shot it and it did real well and......for awhile you get to take care of it till the next protector comes to take over the responsibility. Those originals have that ambience and aura about them that make the sight and feel of them a thing of beauty and art in form and function.

[carbineone]

Thanks everybody. It will not be shot everyday and worn out. I will shoot it a few times a year with light loads though. I am not one to just hang a Gun up and never shoot it. I can appreciate the fact of not shooting a 1000 rounds a year through it, but I shoot Antique Firearms when they are in shootable condition. That is what they were made for.

If I get one that turns out is unsafe to shoot, I dispose of it. If it can not be shot occasionally, I have no use for it. I can hang a picture of one on the wall if I am just going to look at it.

I have many Firearms from Antique, to Military, to modern and shoot em all..This one is not a particuliarly High Dollar collectible and shooting it occasionally, is the value it has to me.  . It would not be one that would be fought over by collectors as a investment. It has non original aftermarket parts I fitted and it was purchased as a project to shoot..Now do not get me wrong, even if it was all original I would still shoot it. I would enjoy shooting a all original even more than this one.

I have right at 400.00 in the Revolver, I cannot hardly buy a repro to shoot occasionally for that price.. It is just not the same to me to spend the time to load and shoot a REPRO Black Powder Revolver. I have many cartridge Guns that are much easier to load up and shoot. I do not particuliar like shooting BP Guns, they are fun but a pain to load.. But the thing to me about this one, is the fact I can shoot something that someone else did 150 years ago. It gives me a certain satisfaction in that aspect. A REPRO made in Italy cannot give me the same satisfaction..

I can appreciate the "Collector" that buys Firearms to just look at, or the ones that buy them for investments and they never see the light of day till they are resold, but I am not that kind of person. I like to shoot em.. To each his own.

Heck if I ever do wear it out though, then it will become the perfect Revolver for the non shooting collector crowd! They should not care if it can be shot or not, or if it even functions properly, just what it looks like hanging on the wall, or laying lonely in the safe

[rifle]

I hear ya Carbineone. I hear ya. I'm much the same but with the old shotguns shootin blackpowder loads. Nothin more venerable to me than the old beautiful double barrel shotguns with the rabbit ear hammers and.....if they don't shoot I don't want them.
I have bought ones that needed "fixed up" so they would shoot and I try to "fix em" in a way not to ruin the original aspects of them.
The old guns just have that.....look and feel about them that only the artist "Old Man Time" can season the right way.

[wyldwylliam]

At 25, my original rem nma will shoot into 3" off the bench, sometimes a tad less. That's with holding the gun in two hands and resting my elbows on the bench and my hands on the bags. My bore is in really find condition, so it sound like with yours as stated, the groups you're getting are pretty nice. Don't know what your target looks like or how you hold, but I do best when I set a tiny bull on the top of the front sight so it looks like a lollipop.

[Noz]

Flint has the best advice. Get the gun butt off of the table and your group size will improve dramatically.

[carbineone]

Thanks, I will update later on when I take it out again. Just had more damn snow here

[Hickok]

This is what works for me, other methods are just as good. Using a two hand hold, I rest my wrists on a sand bag and don't let the handgun touch anything. Seems to give the same point impact as when you shoot offhand.

Diffinately don't allow the butt of the handgun rest on any surface, as this tends to string shots vertically, and it can damage the wood on the rear of the grips if rested on a hard surface.

Resting the frame on bags on the front of the revolver works good, just that sometimes your offhand zero may vary.

[petrinal]

you can reduce those groups, if the gun is capable of 4" at 25 yards, that means that if you find a load that she likes more,  it will group less, as it is already doing good..

I quit long ago testing accuracy in rest, when it comes to pistols, as the zero changes when you shoot standing. The group size probably will be a matter of finding a better load.

I would try real BP, 4F or 3 F, and several loads, from 15 graisn plus filling to 23 grains and filling. In my experience, wads are a detriment to accuracy.

check the rifling, it it is very eroded, it will affect accuracy. If it is not, these original Remington revolvers, because of their progressive rifling, surpass, normally, most italian modern replicas.

I am fully convinced that you can make the gun group in half that size that you mention, or even less. Keep trying new loads, mainly, BP.

i don remember if the ball size is bigger or smaller than 457" in original Remingtons.