Questions on the Kirst Converstion for an 1860 Colt

[Mogorilla]

Hey all,
I have a Pietta 1860 Colt Army clone.   Several actually,  but this one has never been fired.  I have a converted 1858 Remington in 45 colt.  I am completing my Masters degree in December and I am going to treat myself to something.   I have ran the gambit of thoughts on this from a LeMat, to a Patterson, to Walker or Dragoon.  One item kept coming back up, converting one of my armiesI think I have finally settled on it.
Main question.  Per the Kirst site, the 45 colt cartridge is technically ~0.02" too long for the cylinder recommending 45 Schofield ammo.   I can (or could) find 45 colt pretty regularly, but not sure I have seen schofield ammo.   I am not a reloader, because so far I only own 1 cartridge pistol (cap and ball nut).
Long lead to the questions, sorry.
1. Do any of you fire 45 colt in a pietta kirst conversion?
2. If so, do you find one brand fits regularly over the others?
3.  If you reload, is there a way of seating the bullet a little lower to ensure fit? (I have the equipment to reload, just in process of starting with 45 colt)
4.  If you load 45 colt, what extra is needed to reload 45 schofield?

Thanks

[Paladin UK]

This is purely my take on it pard.....
Providing you are.....             `ONLY GOING TO USE BLACK POWDER AND PURE LEAD BOOLITS` just buy yerself a case trimmer remove 0.08" ish from each 45LC case, load em up,24gn plus filler of your choosing and then go and make smoke  

Paladin What likes ta `KIS`   ) UK

[Forty Rod]

But, Pal....Mo don't reload.

[Forty Rod]

Oops.  Double  tap.

[Coffinmaker]

If you already have the stuff to reload .45 Colt, you may already have the stuff to reload Schofield.  You may need a different seat/crimp die depending on who's dies you have.

Cowboy loaded .45 Schofield ammunition ia available from Black Hills.  They deliver to your door.

Coffinmaker

[Paladin UK]

Seth says...

.... It's something you really want to avoid with our favorite type of gun due to their weak design.

Could not agree more, my `60  are my babies!!


Paladin (What lurvs his opentops) UK

[Thomas (Tom) Horn aka James Hicks]

Mogorilla-

Guess I am different than most of those posting before me on the subject.  If you use the Kirst Konverters in the army '60 you can use regular 45 LC brass and you do not need to cut it down... seat your RNFP lead bullets deeper. Does not effect the accuracy.  I use regular 45LC brass (Starline/Winchester/Remington) I only shoot 200 or 255 grain bullets in my cowboy pistols. I use an OAL for the bullets of 1.550", same for my '73 and '92... I never have a feeding problem in the rifles use the same OAL for ALL my pistols.  My army '60 has no problem with bullets conforming to that OAL. I shoot the army '60 in long range pistol at 50 yard targets.   If I use  "hot loads" the rounds go HIGH with army 60. For the 50 yard range I have found that a 200 grain bullet on top of 4.0 grains of Tight Group is perfect. I aim center mass on the target and that is where the bullet hits.  The army '60 (Pietta with Kirst Konverter) does not need Schofield brass and you do not need to cut/trim the brass down, just seat your 200 to 255 grain bulllet deeper. I personally think you should shoot lighter loads in the open tops, because of their design... my opine. If you want to simulate Black Powder loads ... use Accurate 5744 in your 45 LC cartridge with filler (pinch of toilet paper) on top of powder... 17.7 grains of 5744 will perform well... especially well in the '58 Remington at 50 yards.
But for your main question... you do not have to use Schofield brass or cut your existing 45LC brass down AND you do not have to go down to the sissy lead bullets. (bullets below 200 grain).... again, my opine.

[boilerplatejackson]

Mo,

I own and shoot a Pietta 1860 Army with a R & D conversion. I shoot either or cartridges in the conversion. I prefer to shoot
45 Schofield reloads with a Lee 160 gr. cast bullet. Less stress on the frame the better. In reloading the Schofield case I use
the 45 LC dies, but need a different shell holder. I crimp my Schofield cases with my 45 ACP seating die & crimp. I really like
shooting the Pietta conversion.

[Hoof Hearted]

Guys

It's just a matter of using a RNFP (Round Nose Flat Point) bullet, the SAAMI spec calls for a Round Nose bullet and the "Flat Point" is a LOT shorter. By the way most all cowboy loads use RNFP bullets.

The Uberti cylinder is some 60 thousandths shorter tho........

HH

[Mogorilla]

Thanks for all the replies.   I was wondering about the RP vs FP.   Thanks again. 
Closer I get to putting KU in my rearview mirror, the closer I will be to ordering!

[FriscoCounty]

Full loads of black powder will put a lot of stress on any gun.  It's something you really want to avoid with our favorite type of gun due to their weak design.

Weak?  The Walker and Dragoons were open tops and it took Elmer Keith to come up with a more powerful load.  Even Colt's first prototype for the 1872 trials was a Richards conversion.

[Fox Creek Kid]

...Even Colt's first prototype for the 1872 trials was a Richards conversion.

Actually, you're a year late as the Cavalry bought a little over 1k of the 1st Model Richards conversions in 1871. What was entered in the trials of 1872 was a '72 Open Top and a new Model "A", i.e., the SAA. Interestingly, the Open Top beat out the SAA in the testing but the Military was adamant at that time about selecting a revolver with a complete frame.

This is covered in great detail in this superb book:

http://www.amazon.com/Smith-Wesson-American-Model-Charles/dp/1931464243