Man With No Name Cylinder Locking Up When Loaded

El Coyote · January 18, 2013, 08:10:44 PM

Howdy folks!

I come to you all at my wits end. I have been struggling to get my Cimarron Man With No Name 38 Special to run well. I bought this pistol this past summer. After the first trip to the range I noticed that the cylinder was hard to rotated when it was loaded. No big deal it was heading off to get some nice grips and an action job done on her by Joe at Outlaw Grips. She came back and worked well on her first range trip. Took her to my first match and disaster struck. She would fire 1 or 2 rounds and then the cylinder would lock up.
I got home did some research and found the well published Open Top tuning guide. So I figured the arbor wasn't properly fitted. Me and my gunsmith pal here ordered parts and got the arbor fitted. First attempt and we still had the same problem. So we tried a second time. This time we noticed that with the arbor properly fitted the wedge would not slide in. So we smoother out the wedge a bit until it would slide in. We were met initial with success. Now it will cycle with snap caps! I run out to the range and disaster! With really ammo it still locks up! I tried 3 types of ammo all with the same result.

Now what should I try next? Should I order a new arbor to see if a new arbor would allow the wedge to fit in properly? Help guys I am out of ideas and I really want this pistol to work right! If you need more information please feel free to ask!

Gracias por su tiempo!

Bonnie_blue1861 · January 18, 2013, 10:15:22 PM

I'm assuming the snap caps you are testing it with are the solid heavy ones milled out of aluminum> They should have the same specs size wise as a real cartridge. In fact I essentially had the same problem but on an 1858 .45colt Kirst Konversion. Once I got the snap caps to cycle I was alright.

I'm pretty new to all this ....but confident some of these "old-salts" will jump in and give you some pointers in no time.

Fingers McGee · January 18, 2013, 11:02:06 PM

Sounds as if bolt timing/geometry is not correct. Snap caps provide a lot of cushion on the firing pin so the hammer will travel allthe way forward. Primers in live ammo are not as 'soft' and will restrict the hammers forward movement. With live ammo, the hammer is not going forward far enough to allow the hammer cam to clear the bolt leg so when you try to cock the pistol for a followup shot, hammer is unable to move the bolt freeing the cylinder to rotate; and the hand ends up trying to move a locked cylinder resulting in the gun being locked up.

Of course, I could be wrong. Haven't stayed in a Holiday Inn Express in a long time.

theshoer · January 19, 2013, 06:30:50 PM

Seriously check your ammo length, I have some R&Ds cylinders in some Pietta '60s and I have to watch my over all length of my ammo

Coffinmaker · January 20, 2013, 03:08:15 PM

The "Man With No Name" is basically an Open Top frame with a funny barrel assembly. Since you have corrected the barrel/arbor fit, check the breach face for burrs around the firing pin hole. Then, when shooting with live ammo, check the primers for drag marks as the cylinder rotates. It may have too much or too little head space. Optimum head space between the cartridge head and breach face is .006 +\-.001
Try running it with the loading gate open. Cartridges often hang up on the front edge of the loading gate if the loading gate has excessive free play. If that is the case, apply a bevel to the front edge of the loading gate so the cartridge can push it out of the way as it rotates.
Your primers may be backing out just a tad. Check the head space at the bottom of t he frame as well. If you have good head space at the top of the frame and tight head space at the bottom of the frame, you.ll need to use CCI primers.

Coffinmaker

Abilene · January 20, 2013, 08:37:52 PM

What Coffinmaker said on possibly primers backing out (light loads), or cartridge rims catching on the loading gate. I don't understand his comment about CCI primers. Also, what sort of gap do you have between the cylinder and barrel? If it is too tight, fouling from just a few shots, even smokeless, can lock it up (had that happen to one of my Richards-Mason conversions). Or if the gap is too tight it can also lock up against the rear of the barrel from heat expansion.

rifle · January 21, 2013, 07:23:36 AM

Does that gun have the integral front cylinder bushing? That may be too tight and rubbing the frame. If it's too tight it might make the head space too tight at the same time I reckon.
Like someone already said, too light of a load can make it turn hard from backed out primers.
If the gun has the integral cylinder bushing the cylinder shouldn't rub the barrel breech end.
I had a San Marcos conversion that didn't have the cylinder bushing and.....it turned fine till it was shot and then it would get difficult to turn so I helped the cylinder around by hand.
The only thing I could figure with that gun was that the cylinders rear ratchet teeth would go forward and snag on a tool mark ring inside the hole it was in.
Fer awhile I was thunkin it was the cases swelling and staying rearward. My cases were a little long and may have been opening up on the bevel where the cylinder throat begins. You might trim six cases a little short and load em up and try that.
I bet it could be the cylinder bushing too tight when you set the wedge in. The arbor doesn't bottom in the barrels hole to set the cylinder gap/cylinder bushing gap does it???

Coffinmaker · January 21, 2013, 08:15:23 PM

Abilene,

CCI primers are a mite "stiffer" and as such seat just a bit tighter than Federal or Winchester thus resist backing out with light loads.

Coffinmaker

reddog reddog · March 06, 2013, 06:24:05 PM

Just picked up my new "Man With No Name" revolver. Cylinder would not turn with a round in the cylinder. Removed the round and cocked it a few times and the loading gate fell out on the table along with the loading gate screw. Apparently there were problems with the loading gate screw on some models so it is going back to Cimarron for repair. Very close tolerances could cause the cartridge rim to drag on the loading gate. Very disappointing for such a cool revolver.

rifle · March 08, 2013, 09:47:18 AM

I had the problem of a screw backing out in a home made-y conversion where the backplate was held on with screws. I used some loctite and the screw stays put now.
Had the same problem on one of my guns with the gate held by a screw. Loctite fixed that too.
I had a percussion Navy Colt that funtioned fine when firing but.....if accidently dry fired the cylinder would drag. Even pulling the cylinder rearward wouldn't stop that. I had to loosen the barrel to pull the cylinder more forward and then it would be alright. Figured the rear ratchet teeth were biting into the tool marks in the hole and keeping the cylinder forward against the barrel.
Had the same problem with a San Marcos conversion but....it got the problem when firing and not dry firing. The cylinder would stay too far forward and that gun had no cylinder bushing in front like some of the other San Marcos. The early ones had no cylinder bushing and the later ones did. The cylinder bushing I made solved the problem.
What I reason is sometimes the rear of the cylinder being a lil loose on the arbor can snaq the tool marks in the hole and stay forward. Smooth out the tool marks and take the sharp off the edges of the cylinder ratchets and that may fix that kind of problem. Or make a cylinder bushing or fit the one that's there.
Anywhoooo....if a gun locks up when loaded and not locks up when not empty it has to be problematic with the cartridges and headspace or snags somewhere.