Pellet or powder????

[ConfederateNorth]

So finally, FINALLY, after years of getting so close to single action shooting and having some sort of financial or personal crisis getting in he way I will at long last be ordering a .44 Confederate brass Navy. I'm so excited that I can scarcely contain myself... Now a question to the experienced fellows out there....
I've seen folks use (gasp) pellets instead of loose powder in cap and ball revolvers. Is this a good idea of am I carving life off of my soon to be beloved smoke wagon?

[Dick Dastardly]

Black Powder is loose powder only.  Pellets are substitutes.  With a brass frame gun, be careful of pressure.  Manufacturers recommendations in Black Powder will be safe.  Pellets may be over, under or right on for pressure.  Do your homework.

Were it me I'd load only genuine Black Powder in the volume recommended and enjoy the gun.

DD-MDA

[Arizona Trooper]

Don't get the brass frame, especially in 44! It will shoot loose, the question is when, not if. I have seen them loose from firing blanks (lots of them). All of the original Confederate Colt '51 style Navys were 36 caliber, and plenty of them are loose too. Spend a few extra bucks and get a steel frame. It will last forever as long as you keep it clean.

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

Yup, 44 caliber brass Navies are a modern invention.The originals were all 36 caliber. I too second the thought to pay a few more bucks for a steel frame. I remember how excited I was to buy this one back in 1968. Cost all of $40. I managed to shoot it loose with too many heavy loads.



Regarding pellets, I have a box of Pyrodex pellets that I won at a match a bunch of years ago. Never used them, have always used loose powder.

[pony express]

I still have some Pyrodex pellets someone gave me years ago. they gave inconsistent ignition in one of my .44s I had at the time, and the other one, they sometimes didn't go off at all. I think that was the Remington, the cap would just lodge the ball in the forcing cone, then I had to drive it back into the cylinder with a cleaning rod, re-cap and try again. Real black powder gives me the best results, nice round groups. Loose pyrodex works in some of my pistols, others it gives lots of vertical stringing.

[Cliff Fendley]

Dont get the brass frame, first it's not an accurate replica of anything ( ignore the advertising lies about the south producing them during the war) and you will also likely be in the market for another gun before long. Spend a little more on the steel frame.

[ConfederateNorth]

Thanks for chiming in! Sounds like I'll be spending just a hair more for steel (maybe grab a '60 instead of a '51). The big drawback was the cost of shipping on BP. But, I managed to find a gun shop an hour away that stocks powder and caps. It's cheaper than shipping to go get and I get some saddle time to boot.
Sounds like y'all just saved me from some heart break. Thank you.

[Cliff Fendley]

I like the '60 the best, it and the '61 are probably the best looking firearms ever made. They just have smooth and sexy lines, the '51 is the ugly duckling.

I just got a new one 1860, Cabelas had them on sale a while back for 179. By the time I used a 20 of 150 coupon and points on my Visa card I got it for less than 60 bucks shipping and all.   They don't run those models on sale too often but keep a lookout.

[Hickok]

Just the opinion of an old contrary hardheaded percussion handgun shooter of better than 40 years, there just ain't no substitute for real blackpowder. The smell, the smoke, the power, the accuracy, the predictabilty, nothing compares.

Tryed some Pyrodex in a Hawkin rifle in 10 degree weather and......Oh man I don't even want to get started!!!

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Thanks for chiming in! Sounds like I'll be spending just a hair more for steel (maybe grab a '60 instead of a '51). The big drawback was the cost of shipping on BP. But, I managed to find a gun shop an hour away that stocks powder and caps. It's cheaper than shipping to go get and I get some saddle time to boot.
Sounds like y'all just saved me from some heart break. Thank you.

Good onya, Pard.  Brass wouldn't have worked out for you.

[Lefty Dude]

The brass Pietta's are fine if you keep the load low & pressure down. I have been using a pair of 51/44 Brassers now for a couple of years for CAS/SASS competition in Matches. I use APP in mine, which is a low pressure sub. I also have a pair of 60 Pietta's.

If you shoot 25-30 gr's in the Brassers, they will be loose as a goose in short order.

I bought my pair in the Cabela's Bargain cave, paid $100.00 for one and with the points and such, $70.00 for the other. Then spent lots of Hours doing the Pettifogger Mods and such. They are now reliable shooters.
Out of the box, they are a POS, not reliable, and will self distruct with very little use.

Buy the Steel frames, my 60's will soon be fully operational and the 51's will be back-ups.
You missed out on the Taylors Holiday special, 5 1/2" 60 Sheriff models with a spare cylinder for $199.00.

[Tsalagidave]

I'll go with the powder because it was what was originally used. I avoid modern conveniences in period shooting because I feel that it completely defeats the point of appreciating old technology. If I want to shoot modern, I'll take my 20th-21st century guns to the range instead.

-Dave

[rifle]

They's all right about the black powder. It's the best and "authentic". Shippin ain't that much. Try "Powder Inc." on line.
About the longevity of the Brass Framers.......I thunk the originals were stronger due to bronze or whatever put in the brass to stiffin it up. Were the bells of the south that were melted down "really" made of "brass"? A brass bell? Doesn't sound real sound to me.
Anywhoooooo........there is a trick to put to a brass framer that will make it last almost indefinitly with normal loads....at least with the 36 caliber guns. Done it to some and the one I've kept fer myself has lasted now about real close to thirty years and......I've shot a LOT of balls thru it. The only thing that did it some harm was 27gr. FFFg  777 powder. I had to repair a little on it after that test. Of course.......I had damage done to a steel frame Navy revolver too with that overload of 777 powder.
The trick with a brass framer revolver is to beef up the "ring" behind the cylinder that gets dented in from the cylinder banging back into it. That ring is there to keep the caps from chain firing from hitting the frame at recoil time.
Beef up the "ring" and spread the force of the cylinder intoa larger flat surface with a lil steel back plate. Get a narrow rimmed bushing from the hardware or tractor parts supply place in town. Size 7/8ths by 1 3/8's in 14 gauge.
That will fit around the "ring" with a lil filing and cutting off where the hammer and the loading port are in the frame. Once fit,with a little filing,....... the lil steel backplate can be soldered on the frame and will take the brunt of the cylinder banging and the gun won't get that looseness that makes for two different cylinder gaps depending on where the cylinder is turned to. If the Colt type gun stays tight then the acceleration of damage doesn't begin very soon at all.
The lil steel backplate is not real visible when the cylinder is on the gun and.....will make the gun last a long time with using normal loads of ,like, 22gr. FFFg powder in 36 caliber. Neve did a 44 brasser but I'd guess the lil steel backplate would lengthen the longevity of that too.
One catch to the installation of the lil steel backplate....the nipples need honed down so they don't chain fire back into the steel plate. Honed down about the amount of the thickness of the 14 gauge steel plate soldered on the frame.
A "Kitchen Table Gunsmith" could also......remove the "ring" from the frame so to spead the force of the cylinder recoiling back into it and denting the frame. Like a Remington brasser that lasts longer than the Colt's.
Of course if the ring is filed or milled away then the cylinder fore and aft will move a lot. The barrel would need "set back" the thickness of the ring that was removed and....the nipples honed down the same amount like with the steel backplate. Some cylinders have extra threads deeper in the nipples holes so the nipples can just be set a lil deeper in the frame with no side affects because the holes are too deep and threaded already. Just use a bottom cutting endmill in a mill or...have a gunsmith do it fer yas if the nipples have the extra threads to set them deeper.
Anywhooooo.....with a lil work a brass framer 36cal. can be made to last a life time using normal(not reduced) loads. The one I have done fer myself has not loosened the arbor nor stretched the frame ect.ect. as a lot of people say happens to the brassers. I'd reckon to say....that ill affects are due to the "ring" gettin dented and letting the cylinder have the space to "get a running start" while banging back into the frame from recoil.
One fact to mention is.....my brass framer I've kept fer myself is a CVA 1851 Colt type made softer than most any other brass framers. There are different types of brass and some are softer and some are harder. I suspect the newer Pietta brass framers are made of a stronger brass alloy since I've had reports from people that say they have shot normal 44 loads from them thousands of balls and they are still tight. Whether or not that is "perfectly" true I couldn't say.
Anywhooooo.....I put the steel backplate to a brass framer Colt 36 cal. and shortened the barrel to make a belly gun fer an Hombre about 25 years ago. One of his favorite cap&ballers cause he likes the short barrels and all......the gun has been shot a lot with normal 36 cal. loads and....is still tight after all these years.
My brass framer Colt "51" is one of my favorites also but I like the long barrels so mine isn't cut off. It's accurate enough that I've taken squirrels fer the supper table with it and rabbits too. Just because it's a brasser makes it special to me because it's lasted all these years and is still tight....everywhere. It's tarnished and the bluing is worn but.....that makes me like it more. I'm old and tarnished and my bluing wore off long time ago too.
Anywhooooo.....about the "powder" that's best fer the guns.....I put my money on the good ole Holy Black.

[Noz]

Thanks for chiming in! Sounds like I'll be spending just a hair more for steel (maybe grab a '60 instead of a '51). The big drawback was the cost of shipping on BP. But, I managed to find a gun shop an hour away that stocks powder and caps. It's cheaper than shipping to go get and I get some saddle time to boot.
Sounds like y'all just saved me from some heart break. Thank you.

Good choice. 1860, that is. Plus good choice on the loose black powder.