Tubular rivets?

[wyldwylliam]

Howdy Gents and Ladies.

In my leather work I've always used copper rivets and roves because I like the way they look and they are historically accurate.

But I recently got an order where tubular rivets are called for and I got my first batch in just yesterday. They are slick to use.

Just wondering if anybody knows when they first came in?

Thanks.

[Red Cent]

??

[Slowhand Bob]

http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php?action=search2

[Red Cent]

Well, I have looked up the tubular rivets and looked the "clinch" tool. Idon't believe they used the pneumatic tools then so.....

A description says you use the rivet to punch a hole in the leather (or make a hole before the rivet) and the other end is flattened. Sounds like installing a grommet with the tool that rolls the mouth of the grommet outward.

[Grenadier]

If this is the style of rivet you are speaking of, I know they date to the pre-WW1 era. I have a French ammunition pouch that was made sometime before 1914 and it has these style of rivets.

http://cdn1.bigcommerce.com/server1000/f2668/products/74/images/403/jif__21393.1322522105.1280.1280.jpg

[Red Cent]

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=tubular+rivets&qpvt=tubular+rivets&FORM=IGRE

[wyldwylliam]

Thanks for the replies.

The type of tubular I'm refering to is one that most of us have seen, often in commercial leather work, where a hole is punched, the rivet pushed thru and then a special setter is used to split the rivet into little petals which fold outward. I've seen them on old leather work but can't remember any in 19th century stuff, but then I haven't seen all that much really antique leather and that which I have used the copper rivet and rove.

Tandy leather sells the rivet I'm on about and they call it a "tubular rivet." I suppose I should have been more specific as there are several different rivet systems where the rivet is hollow.

[Slowhand Bob]

Though I think tubular rivet is the correct term, splash rivet is frequently used, due to the way it separates on the back.  Certain types of this same rivet can be found with a non splash appearance that looks much better, they are actually rolled over neatly.  Some are made of pretty heavy steel and rolled over on the back like I mention and I am guessing this requires a pretty heavy machine set up to perform.  Combine a  burr (washer) on the back and it looks pretty good and is extremely strong.

[ChurchandSon]

Neat thread....I was asked to help with the Roman armor for a local college theater production and got caught up in the history aspect of their construction...The surname Rivet is French and means a person employed making rivets and small nails for armor...

We don't know what the Romans called this form of armor, though lorica segmentata or lorica laminata are reasonable guesses. The armor is made of rectangular or polygonal plates of iron (mild steel in most modern reconstructions) bent to conform to the shape of the body and held together on the inside by a skeleton of leather straps riveted to the plates. Outside fittings such as hinges, straps and buckles, hooks and eyelets, and loops with leather ties hold the various segments of armor together and enable the soldier to don it and take it off.

Here's an armor buckle dug up in 2001 that dates back to 2BC-2AD..Bronze and copper..Apparently the dealer thought it would bring more money cleaned but it does show details quite well....



The semi-tubular rivet was invented and patented in 1876 by American engineer and manufacturer, Melon Bray. The intention was to create a fastener similar to the solid rivet that required much less insertion force and allowed longer rivets to be used without buckling of the rivet shank...An added benefit to the rolled or tubular rivet is it allows certain applications to be done without punching holes thus speeding up production...We use a lot of captive fasteners at realjob and the best clincher I've used for rivets are from these guys..Also tons of info there...Sorry for rambling, sometimes it's hard to beat the engineer back down.....Randy
http://www.hansonrivet.com/w78.htm

[Slowhand Bob]

Thank you for the information, in particular the date and history.  I have used these quite a bit, though they do not seem popular with the leather trade, particularly where the splash shows.  The splash forming tools are available from several leather working suppliers and in several  configurations but Osborne has the only hand setting tool I have seen for rolling the rivet back and their setter is less than dependable in my hands??  Sad because it is more attractive when rolled, rather than splashed down.  I have found the splash rivet to be stronger and give a  more secure grip than the populare cap version or speedy type.

[Red Cent]

How is the "splash" or "roll" determined?

[wyldwylliam]

Can't answer the last question, but I too really appreciate the great info and the information about history and invention date. Great to know.

[ChurchandSon]

How is the "splash" or "roll" determined?

From a shop manual, they type faster...

The width of the rolled end is determined by the amount of tube sticking out proud of the substrate or
leather in this case..It is called the clinch allowance...A Rolled Clinch gives the maximum strength when the
rivets are set properly. When this clinch is used with soft materials, washers, (burrs) or caps will
provide more bearing surface and a stronger clinch. A Scored Clinch holds best on soft materials since
it can be turned into the material and spreads the clinch to provide a greater contact bearing surface...
The original head is called the factory head and the deformed end is called the shop head or buck-tail.....

[Red Cent]

" A Scored Clinch holds best "......

If a scored "clinch" holds better, then what is that in the picture? I thought the clinch set the rivet and a "rivet" held better if.....

If you placed that instrument into the mouth of the rivet, it looks to be rolled. What forms the splash or petals? Sorry, I can fix your guns or make you a loan (retired banker) but I am a little confused.

Or as they say in technical writing, describe making a peanut butter sandwich. Please.

[Slowhand Bob]

Guys a quick search did not turn up a decent picture of the splash type setter but the best ones I have found are carried by Weaver Leather but the smaller lighter version carried by Tandy looks similar and works on the same principal.  They have the raised nipple in the center but insted of a uniform relief cut roll at the bottom, as in ChurchandSon version, the nipple is surrounded by a series of scallops.  Check your Tandy catalog.

ChurchandSon, the version you show here looks to be far superior to the one marketed by Osborne.  Do you have any source information and model numbers for this in a hand setter model?       

[Camano Ridge]

If you go to this site they show a splash setting tool as well as several other types of rivets and setting tools. http://www.brettunsvillage.com/leather/tools/tools.html

[Grenadier]

I have bought from Brettuns many times over the years and had 100% satisfaction everytime. Excellent people to deal with!

[ChurchandSon]

Red, that pic is of my small "eyelet" setter...Works great with rolled clinches...It came from Hansen Rivet...
Camano Ridge , thanks for that link...I just bought a couple of the "flower" setters from them..Neat site, looks like it's gone cost to visit that new toy...aaaa..Tool store....