loading .44 Russian

[PJ Hardtack]

Don't have the gun in my hands (in transit) or the brass (back order), but I'm setting up to reload for my repro .44 Russian S&W #3.
While waiting for the brass, I'm going to have a friend cut down some .44 Spl. for me.

I have an extra set of .44Mag/.44 Spl. dies that I'm hoping to use for the short .970 Russian brass. Anyone with the experience to tell me if this is going to work?

[litl rooster]

I have used .44 spl dies. I had to modify them to load I presently use the Lee .44 colt dies.

prime fill with ffg and placed a Big lube bullet on top. <From Mark Whyte.  Shoot- repeat

[PJ Hardtack]

Thanks, Rooster!

If necessary, I'll have my .44 mag dies turned down. It should only be the crimping die that needs shortening. The others should adjust to suit the shorter .44 Russian brass.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

I have an old steel sizing die for .44 RM. (I think I got it from a bargain bin at an Edmonton gunshop years ago.) It has a slight two-step profile that sizes even Russian cases enough to grip bullets tightly.  I use it for .44 Colt and 11.6 Reichsrevolver ammo.

P.S:  I can seat bullets for the Reichsrevolver (which uses the .44 Russian case.) with ordinary seaters marked ".44RM - >44Spl"

[FriscoCounty]

Me I'm lazy.  I bought a crimp die.  Midway has the Lee Carbide 3 die  set for only $27.01 right now.  The RCBS cowboy roll crimp die is $27.99 all by it's lonesome.

http://www.midwayusa.com/find?userSearchQuery=.44+russian+crimp+die

[PJ Hardtack]

I could order .44 Russian dies, but I figure that if I shorten the .44 mag seater/crimper die by the appropriate incremental difference 'twixt .44 mag/.44 Spl. I ought to be in the ball park.

Hate to see a good die not being used.

[PJ Hardtack]

Problem solved ... an "as new" set of RCBS 'Cowboy' dies for the .44 Russian/.44 Spl. just fell into my lap at a good price.

[w44wcf]

Mike Venturino had an excellent article on the .44 Russian in the April 2012 HANDLOADER Magazine.  He used 200 and 250 gr cast bullets and tried a couple of factory loads as well.  Original published ballistics = 246 gr bullet at approx. 750 f.p.s.  Original cartridges I have dissected contained 22 grs of b.p. or 4.5 grs. of a disc type smokeless powder.

some of Mike's info .........
200 gr bullet
"best load so far" 3.7 / Titegroup / 740 f.p.s.
"good load" 4.0 / W231 / 725 f.p.s.
"good load" 3.7 / Bullseye / 712 f.p.s.
"FUN!" 18 / Swiss FFFG / 766 f.p.s.

250 gr bullet
"closest to factory" 3.4 / Titegroup / 722 f.p.s.
"accurate" 4.0 / 231 / 699 f.p.s.
"accurate" 3.4 / Bullseye / 706 f.p.s.
"lots of smoke!" 17 / Swiss FFFG / 712 f.p.s.

factory
"hits to the sights" Black Hills Cowboy 210 gr. - 766 f.p.s.
"from a very old box" Winchester 246 gr - 723 f.p.s.

w44wcf

[PJ Hardtack]

Yep, got that article down pat!

Where am I gonna find a 200 gr RN (NOT RNFP) bullet mould?

I already have a Lyman 427666 DC 200 gr mould, but I like the look of the traditional RN design for my .44 Russian.

[w44wcf]

The original Ideal 429215 was a 205 gr RN bullet made for a Mr. Anderton for the .44 Russian. "Mr Anderton made a world's record with it" according to a 1904 Ideal catalog.

It was later changed to a SWC GC design .

Thankfully, NEI offers a mold for the original 429215 RN bullet.....


I am sad to say that I once owned an original 429215 in a single cavity one piece Ideal mold (pre 1927).  I did not have any use for it at the time (15 yrs ago) and parted with it and a number of other molds that I also did not have any use for. As it turned out, Hank Williams Jr. now owns that mold.  
 
w44wcf

[PJ Hardtack]

Muchos gracias, Senor! I shall look it up on the net.

Don't know why it matters, but it bugs me to see SWC's in Cowboy loads. Yet when I started in this game many summers ago, I shot 240 gr SWC's as it never occurred to me that a .44 Spl. could be shot with anything else! I was a fan of Elmer Keith and his writings at the time.

[cpt dan blodgett]

I was pretty much that same way until I tried shooting them out of a 92 Rossi, could get them to feed but not real smoothly, switched to 200 LRN, was forced to use 44 mag cases as the round was so short they flew out the top when the elevator popped up.  After NKJ worked over rifles the 245 SWC feed OK.

[PJ Hardtack]

I don't anticipate that feeding will be issue with a S&W .44 Russian revolver .... ;>)

I was told that Browning '92's would not feed .44 Spl. cases, especially if using SWC's. I guess my wife and I have the only two that will. You do need to operate the lever smartly, but they do feed.

[PJ Hardtack]

I tried unsuccessfully to order this mould from NEI today. Their web site says that they no longer accept credit cards and you must use PayPal.
Fine, until you go through the process and there is NO option for PayPal!!! All I get is the old one for VISA.

So; I call and get a return call from an employee I can hardly understand and he will NOT accept my order over the phone. He tells me to use the web site.

Grrrrr ....

Thankfully, NEI offers a mold for the original 429215 RN bullet.....

w44wcf

Well, I just sent the above message when the phone rang. This time it was someone I could understand and he talked my wife through the process.
He gave her the total including shipping ($122 for a Meehanite  DC mould) and NEI is listed as a PayPal user. Done deal.

Damn, I HATE online ordering! I prefer dealing with someone with a pulse ....

[w44wcf]

I see what you mean. It appears that their website needs to be updated.

There is a mail your order in option.  Perhaps that would be the best way to go.

w44wcf

[philswill]

I also owned a 429215 Ideal Anderton mold.  Itcast out to .434 and worked pretty well in my 3rd gen SAA with.434 throats an .427 bore.


[quoteIt was later changed to a SWC GC design][/quote]  I'm pretty sure the bullet was dropped from production and was replaced with ray Thompson's design gc mold nominally casting 215gr bullets.

I found a 429478 mold that had an inspection sticker in the 1990s. Its very similar to the anderton bullet with slightly less generous grease grooves and a nose that is not as blunt.  I load it light with trailboss, 700-800fps and is almost pleasant to shoot in my 396 Smith and is very accurate in all of my .44 spec.

I was trying to find anderton's first name so I can do an internet search. 

[w44wcf]

philswill,

Welcome to the forum. Thank you for the info on the 429478.  

I did a little more research on the early 429215.........
1901 - first appearance in the Ideal catalog  
1902 - indicates that Anderton had set a world record with it so he must have did it in 1901(?) .  
Thomas was his first name.

I did a quick search and found that on Dec 07, 1901 he shot the highest score at Walnut Hill (476)  and bested  it (480) on April 4, 1903.

http://archive.org/stream/pistolrevolver00himmrich#page/n3/mode/2up
In the search function type Thomas Anderton and some pointers will appear at the bottom.
A picture of him is on page 58.
Page 153 & 154  - individual scores leading up to his several individual records.

History is interesting.
w44wcf

[Adirondacker]

History is interesting.
w44wcf

That's no lie!  Interesting that "large portion" of this book, which I don't have, appears in Guns, Ammunition, & Tackle, which I have but had forgotten about.  Interesting also that it's dedicated to A. C. Corbin, another invaluable source for info about guns of this period. 

[PJ Hardtack]

When my NEI mould arrives and I cast some lead, I'll give my impressions - and the impressions of the gun with that bullet.