What you loadin? Black powder SASS loads for 44wcf / 44-40

[ryder west]

Howdy pards,

New to the site here and been browsin around enjoyin all the information about our sport. I've seen good information on the 44wcf black powder cartridge but I am curious as to what ya'll SASS cowboy shooters are loadin. I have not shot a match with the 44wcf yet but as soon as I receive my new leather I plan to shoot 44wcf black as my main cart.

My first loads were 200g MavD Big Lube sized to .429 from Whytes with 34g of Graff FFg and CCI magnum primer and mixed brass. Shot well through my Uberti 1866 carbine but fouled and lost accuracy at 20 rounds. Also no lube star at end of barrel.

The Taylor Smoke Wagons shot great and did not losed accuracy with this load after 30+ fired although the recoil was a little heavier than I expected.

My next loads to try are loaded with the same bullet but on 32.5g of Graff FFg and 50 with Fed 150 primers and 50 with Fed 155 primers.

I have not had the chance to test these out yet but am currious what the results might be with the different primers. I really want to be able to shoot a full match without swabbing the barrel every 20 rounds.

So my question to ya'll is, what are ya'll shootin in your 44wcf black powder cowboy loads? Are you having to clean during the match? Bullet? Powder and charge (volume or weight?) Lube? Primer?

Have any of ya experimented between standard and magnum primers?

Thanks in advance,

Ryder West

[Gripmaker]

Your main problem is that you are not getting enouogh of the right lube to last the full length of the bore. Also, with GRAF's powder you do not need to use a magnum primer. I have used CCI   standard Large Pistol primers for years with BP of differing quality and had no problems with consistent ignition.  Even if you are using a bullet with the largest lube groove available, if you use the wrong lube, you are dead in the water.  Check out SPG and see how it shoots. I have also used any number of lubes, some of my own concoction and gotten differing results. Fairshake can also put you in contact with some really good stuff. I am presently testing it and it looks really promising.  Also, go to the Winchester 73 forum below and start reading everything you can find on shooting the 44 WCF. It will be time exceptionally well spent.
BTW, welcome to the wonderful world of BP shooting. It gets into your blood and is harder to get out than bad cholesterol.
God Bless and shoot safe.
Larry Little aka Gripmaker

[Fingers McGee]

I'm shooting 200 grain big lube bullets sized to .428 with a bp compatible lube, using 31 grains of Goex or Grafs fffg ignited by Federal Large Pistol Primers.  Do not have a fouling problem, and get a good lube star at the muzzle when using a '66 Carbine, '73 Short rifle, and an AWA Lightning.

You don't need magnum primers and you might want to try fffg granulation and a smaller sized bullet.

[PJ Hardtack]

My 44-40 BP load: Lyman's 'Cowboy' 200 gr RNFP sized .429/SPG lubed, 32 grs Goex FFg, standard LP primer.

Works for me in both pistol and rifle. See no need to change.

[Gripmaker]

Fingers,  What lube are you using? Am always looking for something that will improve what I am now using. BTW, how was the Show Me Shoot this year?  Since it was our 40th anniv., wife and I spent that time touring Florida and East coast. Didn't even get to do any shooting.

[litl rooster]

Been shooting Mark Whytes (Springfield Slims) 200 grain bullets from my Henry since I got it. Six or Seven years now. With ffg Goex or Schutezen. Never had a fouling issue. Use the same bullet on 44 Colt and russian cases also.

[Cliff Fendley]

I'm using the same bullets as the original poster with no fouling issues.

I've been shooting the Mav 44 in .429 from Whytes with 37 grains of Goex 2f.

I use Winchester primers.

I've shot as many as a six stage match this summer without cleaning. I can't tell the difference when cleaning from 10 rounds or 60 rounds.

The end of the 24 end barrel on my 66 is damp from the lube.

[Grapeshot]

I use a 200 grain Mav Dutchman Big Lube Boolit sized .430 with my own blend of BP Lube.
Starline or Winchester Cases in .44-40 (.44WCF)
2.5cc's of Pinacle or Goex 2Fg with a card wad on top and compressed just enough to seat the boolit.
A CCI Large Pistol Magnum Primer and crimp with a Lee FCD.

[Fingers McGee]

Fingers,  What lube are you using? Am always looking for something that will improve what I am now using. BTW, how was the Show Me Shoot this year?  Since it was our 40th anniv., wife and I spent that time touring Florida and East coast. Didn't even get to do any shooting.

It's a concoction that Noz has made up based on Gatofeo #1 I think.  He casts and lubes my 44-40 bullets. Show Me Shootout was great.  Those who chose not to go cause of location change missed out on a good match at a really good range,  The SMR crew did a bang-up job making a new range in 7 months.

[Gripmaker]

Guess I'll have to contact NOZ and see if he can make me some to test in 44WCF longrange loads. I have a few more to test. Just waiting on the weather to coincide with my free days.  Being retired isn't all it's cracked up to be when you have two grandsons to watch.  The oldest (2 yrs) already likes to watch GrandPa shoot.

[Blackpowder Burn]

Ryder,

Like most of the folks here, I shoot the Mav Dutchman sized to 0.428 over 32 grains of Goex FFg or FFg and lubed with either SPG or DD's Pearl Lube II.  I shoot it in a 24" Winchester 73, a 24" Pedersoli Lightning, a 20" USFA Lightning carbine, a 20" Winchester 92 carbine and a pair of USFA SAA's.  I've never had a fouling issue with any of them. In fact, I shoot a complete 2 day match before I clean any of them.

[ryder west]

Thanks to ya'll for replying. My Mav Dutchmans came with the lube that Slim uses for all his boolits so I'm sure that that aint the issue. I'm figuring the magnum primer is the problem right now, at least with my current powder choice. Will update as soon as I can get out and test them out.

[Montana Slim]

I've used nothing BUT magnum LP's (CCI & Wolf) in my BP 44-40's for 25,000+ rounds so far.... using between 28 - 35 gr FF and/or FFF (Kik, Schuetzen, Goex, Elephant and Diamondback), big-lube 44 bullet (sized .428), homemade lube, many combinations of 50/50 lube using beeswax + any/all of the following: olive oil, crisco, deer tallow, mutton tallow. No fouling issues with over 100 shots fired at over 100 yds w/o cleaning in 1866 rifle. Rapid fire, from X-sticks, the rifle held about an 8" group for 100 shots fired at 110 yds using the barrel sights. I now am shooting my 66 carbine with equal result..however, the 19" barrel is an advantage for less fouling. In fact after a 60 round match, the end of the muzzle is absolutely wet & oozing with lube.

IMO, The lube formula combined with your weather (temp/humidity) is likely the issue. Persoanlly, I size/lube my bullets and load them within a day or two at most. I've observed my own stored bullets (sized & lubed) for my Sharps rifle experience diminished lube performance after sitting for a few months before loading them. I suspect moisture in the lube ingredients dies out sitting exposed to the air, while my loaded ammunition has performed well after sitting for 2-3 years.

Slim

[sail32]

I realize this .44-40 load could go in either of the two reloading sections.

I tried something different the other day.

Normally I shoot a Big Lube bullet in my .44-40, large pistol primers and with 33 grains of FFg GOEX in my Uberti Henry, Uberti Winchester 1873 and my Pietta 1873 Colt copy.

Today I tried a friend's recommended duplex load of 3 grains of IMR 4227, and 27 grains of FFFg GOEX. The load was slightly compressed to prevent the powders mixing.

The result was a suitable muzzle flash, a lot of smoke, and after 40 or so rounds, a clean bore. The bore looked shiny with powder grains near the breach.

Cleaning resulted in the 4th or 5th patch coming out clean.

It was raining and fog made it very hard to see the 100 yard targets. With the darkness and back lighting, no effort was made for accuracy.

I have no idea of pressures, so your on your own.

[ryder west]

IMO, The lube formula combined with your weather (temp/humidity) is likely the issue.
Slim

I agree that weather is definitely a factor. Being new to the black powder game I am learning as I go along. I thought the "stock" lube the came with the "Big Lube" boolits and or magnum primer may have been the issue to begin with but after going out for a shoot this weekend, I realize that shooting in 37 degree F weather may require a softer lube. I went out with 50 rounds each of 1.9cc Swiss ffG and 1.9cc Graff ffG with 50/50 bees wax / Crisco lube and the same with the "stock lube.

The stock lube performed better with both powders that the 50/50 but still only left a small lube deposit at the end of my 1873 with a 24" barrel. The 50/50 left virtually no lube star. I found solid lube spew on the target near the boolit holes at 50 yards.
I am looking into some softer lube recipes for the colder weather and will save the 50/50 for summer loading.

And...what a difference between Swiss and Graff. Besides burning cleaner, the Swiss packs a lot more punch than the Graff which is great for rifle, long distance and hunting but not so great for the pistols. I would not be comfortable at all trying to shoot one handed pistols with the Swiss loads.

Hopefully I will get a recipe together that works for the rifle and pistols with my Graff powder.