lost cowboy ,need some one to point direction

[Kayleen]

Knuckles,
We could go on and on about what is the best avenue of NCOWS, if shooting isn't your game, I would suggest finding a posse that is into reenacting. I am not sure where you are from, but Indiana has GLF&MC, Iowa has Palmer Creek, Kansa has KVC. These clubs enjoy the history part of NCOWS. Now I am not saying that the rest don't, but these are more into it. By the way I saw some really great"Originals", that also came from Kentucky.
  When NCOWS began, it started out with quite a few reenactments. CVR posse did many.
  I for one, hate the timer thing too. I can shoot with it, but it is irritating. I have joked about having to go to a different state than IOWA to shoot as I am to busy here. I do the cooking along with my daughter for the CVR posse and all of the specialty shoots.
  If our membership shows what percentage of folks actually shoot over those that just get the magazine and visit. The latter wins hands down.
  We are in the process of forming an all "LADIE"S POSSE". These gals will only be reenacting. By the way they are hurdy-gurdy girls and the such.(you know the naugthy nice girls of the town)
Latter,
Kayleen

[Books OToole]

My attitude about timers is they are only for breaking ties.  If two people shoot clean, the one with the quickest time wins.  At least that is the way it should be.  If you miss faster than someone who shoots clean, you should not win.

Books

[Wymore Wrangler]

Frank, I'm a slow shooter, and I shoot at my pace also, but I think many of the new members just can't grasp the concept that NCOWS was founded to be a competive shooting organization, I base that statement on our bylaws goals and from personal conversations with both George Glenn and Dave Williams the two founding members.  NCOWS posses get together and shoot, how they do it, well that's left up to them.  So go out and have fun

[Wymore Wrangler]

Joss, growth is good, heck how many hours have I spent answering questions and spent my own time and money promoting NCOWS.  But I have to ask, why join an organization if you don't want to support or participate in how it conducts it's events.  Guess I'll just moved back from the fire and sit with, and shoot, with the Silent Majority....

[Lars]

I am another of those recent NCOWS members.

My primary reason for joining was the historical aspects, that is, it gives me an additional reason to research a specific, interrelated series of historical events in the USA and abroad and to develop a persona within them. I am not a cowboy, I never watched western movies as a kid or adult and still do not care to. So far, I am getting plenty of support from fellow NCOWS members for developing an authentic western USA persona, that of an assayer working for a Finnish-owned company mining gold and silver mine near Telluride, CO. I have been traveling around to many of the mining towns in Colorado and adjacent states, reading lots of books on the subject, lots of books about Swedish and Finnish immigration to western USA mining towns, making contact with fellow scandinavians at those mining towns and the Finns and Swedes that have written about them.. This is highly interesting to me on its own right.

I really don't much care for action shooting. I do like shooting some of the old guns from the mid 1800s to the early 1900s. I grew up shooting BP and use it in one to all of my guns at NCOWS shoots. I do enjoy developing really accurate BP loads and shooting them. I was a SASS member for many years and really enjoyed shooting at 5 Winter Range matches, as well as many regional and state level matches. I have won my class now and then. I have had many "clean" matches shooting FC. I still shoot at some monthly CAS matches, ones that have the most interested shooting -- most SASS sponsered matches now bore me. The few NCOWS matches I have attended or will be attending interest me a lot more than the average SASS sponsered matches, or I have good expectations that they will be great shoots (GAF Muster, for example).

When I want to go in a different direction, I go to a Western 3 Gun shoot. Those interest me a lot too, again, much more than the average SASS sponsered match. I am starting to look at Cowboy Shilouette matches.

I highly recommend NCOWS as a shooting plus, plus, plus organization that has lots of room for folks whose interests and reasons for joining go well beyond action shooting. I have yet to encounter one of the "stitch police". Stina and I do our homework and are likely to be quite able to defend our choices, should we ever encounter a member of the stitch police.

Lars

[Wymore Wrangler]

Lars, great post, we do offer alot for everyone, and I think all of us in NCOWS like the historical research part, but I am different, I did watch westerns, morning, noon, and night, and still do today.   My major concern is that folks get the idea that we aren't competive action shooters.  Anybody that thinks we aren't hasn't shot with our Marshal Tracy Thorpe....

[French Jack]

Yes, we are a shooting organization.  If not, we would not bother to keep score.  That is a major part of what we are about as an organization.  It is NOT ALL we are about.  I feel that many of our members should have been present for some of our congress meetings and heard the rest of the story.

We are also an organization that offers more opportunity for members to delve into the history and lifestyles of a century plus ago.  We are the opportunity and umbrella for historians, reenactors and anyone who wishes to go that route.  Our very "Founding Fathers" have gone into great detail in their vision for our organization.  We do have the opportunity to be much more than just a shooting organization. 

If we close our minds and strive to be just a competitive shooting organization, we have no reason to exist.  We may just as well belong to the "Other Shooting Organizations".  NCOWS would have no valid reason for existence. 

We should be celebrating our diversity,  because we are able to do and be more.  We truly are an inclusive organization.  We are not exclusive.  We are not the dread Stitch Police.  We are each and every one of us a vital part of our organization.  Remember the old joke about the body parts-- let's not be rectums and make everyone suffer.

[Ottawa Creek Bill]

Knuckles,
You keep hearing a few of us (including myself) harping on a new shooting class called the Originals, It is a research/historical class which leans more toward research and documentation as part of your overall score then the shooting aspect of the class. I am Odawa Indian (Ottawa) but do a Chiricahua Apache impression. My documentation is an on-going process and is right now at 30 pages, and anyone that would like to can read it. But, to shoot this class the documentation does not have to be that comprehensive, one or two pages will do, it's up to you how much you provide.
While at the NTR shoot (NCOWS Mid-West Regional), I saw many great looking shooters there that could easily shoot this class, including the women, if they had the written documentation to support their personas. I've been in SASS since the early eighties (#2423), shot many matches, still do, and also shot High Power competition for many years, but there was something that these venues didn't offer, that is why I joined NCOWS three years ago. In the short time I've been in NCOWS, I've seen a swing to more traditional leaning and historical views as far as NCOWS is concerned, you may not hear a lot about it other then here, but you can see it in the members clothing and attitude, and, the way the voting went in the last election we had. Others here, are slow to admit to seeing the change, but if you look real hard and get past what you think you see, it's hard to deny. My hope is that we can keep it going and with new members that think like you, it could be possible. French Jack said it best, there is room for everyone in NCOWS.

OCB

[BlaiseNSaddles]

I was wondering about how NCOWS shooting differs from SASS.  I looked over the site and found equipment not allowed and equipment allowed but nothing like specific classes or if certain weapons were not allowed.

SASS obviously is Single Action only but there was Double Actions in the time frame (and at least one semi-auto that comes to mind), how about these?

[Wymore Wrangler]

Doc, yes double actions are allowed, such as the 1877 Colt Lighting, on semi-auto, I think that would be to modern.  

OCB, I guess the difference in our view points is that I don't see the change you speak of because it's always been there at the clubs I've enjoyed, most folks just don't get up on the band wagon about it....  And I'd love to read your persona research, seriously, I've got family ties on both sides of the border and a great grandmother with a too close for comfort incident with the Apaches in Sonora....

[Ottawa Creek Bill]

Wymore,
Thats what I meant about NOT seeing the change because you don't want to see it. Are there members in NCOWS that have done research all along? Sure there have been, I think thats why we had such positive response to the originals class.
As far as being vocal about it, yes it does give those that want too a new venue in which to participate in that here to for didn't have a way to share a common interest and share their knowledge with like minded folks, notice Wymore, I said like minded folks. The next time we get together such as the convention, I'll bring you a copy to read, and you can bring me a copy of yours 

OCB

[Major Matt Lewis]

Just an FYI.  There will be an "Originals" catagory at the GAF Muster Next year....

Now mind you, the Muster will have a Civil War theme for 2006.  So, the Originals participants will need to tailor their persona to that of a Civil War period individual.  I would perfer Soldiers, either blue or gray, but I will allow non military persona's into the catagory.  However, Everybody in the "Originals" catagory will have to have a C&B Pistol (No Conversions) and a Muzzle loading rifle, yes, a breech loader for Sharps will work too.  But, they can not be cartridge rifles.

The rest of the folks will have a regular CAS Match....

[Ottawa Creek Bill]

Major Matt,
I think that is a great idea!! Question, are you going to require the participants that want to shoot that category to submit documentation prior to the GAF muster?, or is it just an originals class in name only..... and how are you going to score it???. Just curious.. If not, then it would be just a category,  as Wymore says... just a dress up comtume party.......

OCB

[Major Matt Lewis]

OCB,

Mind you, I am knee deep in getting ready for the 2005 Muster, but the way I see it, the parcipants would need to have their packages into me about a month prior to the shoot.  They would be judged by their peers and would shoot the match w/o any pistol reloads and shooting each rifle target once.  However, I have not fully thought it through yet....

[Books OToole]

Any soldier of the regular army should be able to load and fire three rounds per minute with a muzzle loader.  This should be the one catagory where reloading is more important than accuracy.  The Army drilled and drilled to get the men's reloading to the 3 shots per minute minimum.  They rarely shot for accuracy. 

The best I've done with a muzzle loading flintlock musket is 3 rounds on target in 1 minute 20 seconds.  With a little work 3 shots on target in one minute is doable.

Books

[Major Matt Lewis]

Books,

You're a gamer....

Of Course NCOWS rules on Misses would Apply.

[Ottawa Creek Bill]

Major,
I may be mistaken but I think you have a couple of participants who are attending the GAF shoot this year that took part in the Originals shoot at the Natiionals this year, John Torrence (Trap) and River City John ( I'm not sure of anyone else). They both could probably be persuaded to outline the the guide lines we used for the inaugural shoot at Ackley this year.

OCB

[Major Matt Lewis]

I bring it up with them when time permits.  I reckon that there should be a standardized way of judging and if y'all want to take the responsibility of running the class, I don't see where it would hurt to do it. 

However, I would stick to the C&B and Single shot Muzzle/Breach loader for the weaponry though...