Questions about the .45-75 Winchester

[wyldwylliam]

So I've been working up loads for this cartridge in my Uberti Centenial, and I've finally managed to get good accuracy.

We're under three feet of snow in these parts, so getting any distance is problematic presently, but at 25M, I'm getting one hole groups with:

20-1 alloy 350gr Lyman bullet
Lyman black powder lube
60gr Goex 3f
Bertram cases
1 card wad
Winchester large rifle primers

My question is that with this load, dropped thru a 24" tube and compressed 3/16", I'm only able to get that measly 60gr in the case.

I'd dearly love to get more powder in there, but am leery of compressing any more than I already am, especially considering that I'm using the drop tube.

Given the limitations of the '76 action I'm at maximum COL.

Any of you fellers with more knowledge than I have care to chime in? Would it be safe and/or sane to compress any more?

[cpt dan blodgett]

If you are shooting 1 hole, why try more.  Once things thaw out or snow crusts enough to walk on see how you do at 100.

If you try to compress too much you could bulge the case. 

[Dick Dastardly]

Howdy wyldwylliam,

What's your mission for the gun?  Load for that mission.  Is your load by volume or measured weight?  The volume of modern brass is less than the original "balloon head" brass and holds less than the advertised amount.

Graph your loads and know their velocities.  Then compare your velocities with the advertised original ones.  Your technology will be better, but it should give you some basis for comparing your loads with the originals.  Also, be advised that it was common practice to advertise one thing and actually deliver something quite different.  Shooters "back in the day" didn't have the technology to really test ammo the way we do now.

Small groups at short distances are good.  They give you a good starting point to go longer.  However, strange things can happen further out.  Take good notes and report back.

Happy New Year!

DD-MDA

[Slowhand Bob]

I know some here will consider it blasphemy but there is always the possibility of using a sub that will produce hooter loads.  One other notion that I have heard voiced by many large bore shooters through the years, some loads actually shrink as the distance increases.  I have heard this notion forwarded mainly by modern long range 50 cal target shooters, might be worth looking into amongst our Buffalo match shooters also??

[wyldwylliam]

Thanks for your insights, Gents.

I realize that for a lot of shooters of these old guns, accuracy is the only test and if you get there with a bit less velocity, no big deal.

Naturally, I want the best accuracy I can get, but my desire for more powder, at this early stage anyhow, is to do it while also getting the flattest trajectory and the best energy I can as my mission for the gun is to hunt bear and moose. Various types of target shooting will also be done, but it is secondary.

As to the old time balloon head cases, I have read that and I surmise that our modern cases are more like the vintage "Everlasting" brass that they sold back when for reloaders. Would that some enterprising manufacturer bring the balloons back for us strange black powder types.

Also, as far as groups shrinking at longer ranges with some cartridges, I seem to remember reading that that is because some bullets need a while in flight to stabilize fully. It will be interesting to get this gun on paper out to where the ranges are marked in hundreds and see what happens. If I can keep her shooting at a couple of inches moa I will be delighted.

Lastly, if any of you could address the compression issue and give me your thoughts on whether I could safely compress the load further, that would be most appreciated.

[Ranch 13]

You need a chronograph to see what the velocity actually is. Chances are pretty good that with the 60 grs of 3f you're using the velocity is about where it should be.
Yes you can compress more powder into that case, but be advised that often times that may give you some severe verticle stinging.
And always keep in mind most of these old blackpowder cartridges only produce about the same ballistics as a modern magnum handgun. 13-1400 fps is about as good as it gets with these.

[wyldwylliam]

Thanks Ranch. Unfortunately I don't own a chronograph, I suppose I shall have to remedy that situation pdq. I haven't bothered with one for the last decade or so as it's been mostly all muzzleloaders with me for that time, and I've just loaded as much powder as needed to get the job done. Sure am enjoying learning about these new fangled ca'tridge guns though. Sure woulda come in handy back on the beaver streams.

[Slowhand Bob]

Never tried it but the hottest powder for smakey loads is supposed to be Tripple 7 but at what point leading becomes a big problem I do not know?