A Favor Please

[PvtGreg]

Hi All,

I found this in the SSS archives: - http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,25858.msg339714/topicseen.html#msg339714

Its one of the Armi-Sport (Chiappa) N-SSA inspection sheets.  Give it a read.

I wanted to ask a favor of any owner of an original Spencer rifle.  Could I trouble a couple of you to please take and publish on this thread the following dimensions?

1) From the top of the receiver to the back of the first band.

2) From the top of the receiver to the back of the second band.

3) From the top of the receiver to the back of the third band.

4) From the top of the receiver to the back of the front sight.

Again, I would greatly appreciate it if a couple of you could measure this on your original Spencer rifles and publish it on this thread.

Humbly Yours,  

Pvt Greg

[Jobe Holiday]

PvtGreg,

The dimensions, from the front edge of the receiver to the back of the item being measured, are as follows:

1 - Bottom Band - 5.5" (5 1/2")

2 - Middle Band - 13.5" (13 1/2")

3 - Top Band - 21.625" (21 5/8")

Front Sight - 26.75" (26 3/4")

There were three (3) M-1860 Rifles measured for this survey, and all were consistent in the dimensions recorded. The serial # ranges were 3,000; 4,000; and 28,000. In fact, a friend has four (4) new old stock Spencer forearms that he had gotten from Bannerman's in the 1950's. We checked those also and found the barrel band placement to be the same as the dimensions shown above. So, as you can see, the forearms were all cut on the same machine pattern.

I hope this helps in whatever quest you may be on!

J.

[Two Flints]

Jobe,  Many, many thanks.

The link suggested by Pvt Greg, less the banter.

Hello SSS,

I thought you might be interested in seeing the N-SSA Inspection Chart used to compare the measurements of an original 1860 Spencer Rifle with those of an Armi Sport Spencer Rifle, Model 1865. The incorrect dimensions are shown in red and can be easily seen.



Recently one of the Small Arms Inspectors checked 3 of the new ArmiSport Spencer Rifles, hoping to give them Temporary Approval to be used in the N-SSA's competitive matches. What he found was the location of the middle barrel band does not match an original Spencer Rifle. On all 3 ArmiSport rifles the middle barrel band was 1" too far forward. Instead of the barrel bands being mounted 13.5" forward of the front edge of the receiver, all 3 were 14.5" forward. We were surprised to see a full one inch difference from an original Spencer Rifle. Our allowable +/- tolerance is 0.375" (3/8"). Even with that the middle bands are still 0.625" (5/8") too far out. 

I probably should have added a disclaimer that all N-SSA Small Arms inspection sheets are subject to modification, or updating, without notice. Some changes are made to simplify things, others are to expand basic descriptive information. Some dimensions are a "mean" of several surveyed arms that have varied one from the other. The changes are usually based on feedback from our membership, or the Committee members themselves.  

Two Flints

[PvtGreg]

Thanks Jobe,

No mystery - I'm moving forward on my Chiappa Spencer rifle conversion to make the rifle N-SSA compliant.  Specifically I'm going ahead and replacing the forearm with a more accurate one.  I ordered two rifle forearms, one from Dunlap Wood Products and one from S&S.

When I was measuring the features on my rifle last night I noticed that my dimensions (the distance between the receiver and barrel bands and the distance between the receiver and the front sight) were a bit different than the ones noted on the form that Two Flints posted today.  I was curious if the originals have and variations in them.

I've got some emails out to Chiappa Spencer rifle owners for the same info.

BTW - If any of you would do the same measurements on your Armi Sport rifles and post them here I would appreciate it very much.

When I get home I'll compile a chart of differences.  Hopefully give us an idea of how much variance exists not only between the originals and the Chiappa versions, but between individual rifles in both categories.

I will be taking pictures of the conversion at each stage and plan to start a thread on the experience as soon as I get my forearms.  I will no doubt be coming back to the board with questions and observations.

I'm also going to start a shared Evernote (http://evernote.com/) note book on the conversion for raw notes and doodles on the project.  If you want to have access to the shared notebook you can download Evernote (Mac, PC, Android and IOS versions all exist) and let me know and I'll share it with you.

Thanks - PvtGreg

[Herbert]

From back of the stock to edge of band face ,back band 6 9/16,midle 14 9/16,front 21 6/16 .This is the meashermentsts of my Armi Sports Spencer rifle

[Jobe Holiday]

Herbert, would those be dimensions from the ArmiSport Repro?

J.

[PvtGreg]

Jobe

It must be the repro.  That's the exact dimensions I got last night.

Thanks Herbert!

[Arizona Trooper]

Here's another county checking in. SN 8966 matches Jobe's numbers exactly.

[PvtGreg]

Ok - Here's what I have.  This is a table of the measurements that are out of the allowed tolerances:

	Original Spencer	Chiappa Spencer (Herbert, PvtGreg)	N-SSA Evaluated Spencer	Difference (PvtGreg)
Receiver To Front Band	21.63"	21.38"	21.63"	0.25"
Receiver To Middle Band	13.5"	14.5"	14.5"	1"
Receiver To Bottom Band	5.5"	6.5"	6.5"	1"
Receiver To Front Sight	26.75"	27.26"	27.38"	0.51"
Length of Forearm	25.125"	24.56"	24.5"	0.565"

PvtGreg