Spencer Rifle (1865) Serial # Information Requested

[squarehead1]

My stepdaughter recently bought an 1865 Spencer full stocked rifle for her son.  Like new bore.  Cartouch. s/n 3XX. The 1865 Rifle with a saddle ring is in exellent (exterior freckles of age) pristine bore, no peaning of the chamber,  with cartouches.

What can you tell me?  I find cartridge cases in S&S.  Any other sources?  What bullet mould?

Thanks,
John/Squarehead1

[Two Flints]

Hi John,

Glad you finally were able to get back on CasCity!

Photos of your Spencer Rifle would be great to see and joining our Spencer Shooting Society (SSS) would be even better. Send the photos to me if you cannot post them.

Please Email me at fsgrand2@fairpoint.net that you want to join SSS.  Also need the entire serial #, but if it's an 1865 Spencer Rifle then it is post Civil War issue and serial # information may not be available or in print.

Thanks,

Two Flints
Moderator, Spencer Shooting Society

[DJ]

Might be able to help a little.  Does it perhaps have two barrel bands, a cleaning rod under the barrel, serial number on the left breech of the barrel that matches the receiver, and made by Burnside Rifle Company?  If so, it's likely one of the Burnside-made Spencers converted to a rifle by Springfield Armory for possible use in the post-Civil War era. 

Photos would help, of course.

--DJ

[squarehead1]

DJ
I do not have the piece in hand as all are in storage due to a house fire.  I remember the s/n at the back of the block,but did not look for another s/n.  All of the other identifiers are correct.  It also has a cartouch on the left side of the stock a bit toward the butt from the breech.  Its interior is very close to unfired.  Do you think it worth a trip to the NRA museum for further research?
Thanks,
John Foley (squarehead1)

[Arizona Trooper]

The fact that it has a saddle ring and is a rifle pretty much narrows it down to a Springfield Burnside carbine conversion. It should have 2 barrel bands. These were done for the Franco Prussian War through a series of under the table deals. One of the major US arms companies (if I recall correctly it was Marcellus Hartley, owner of Remington, UMC and a lot of other arms operations), asked Springfield if they had any surplus Spencer rifles, as he had a customer for them. Springfield said no, but they had all these Burnside made M-1865 carbines and maybe they could work something out. We were officially neutral in the FP war, but the government was using surplus arms sales to help pay off the Civil War debt, so they didn't ask too many questions when money was on the table. To make a long story short, the carbines got made into rifles, sold immediately as surplus, and off to France they went. In the meantime, France lost the war. So, now the Germans owned the brand new, never issued Spencers. They promptly sold them back to US arms brokers and most came right back to the states in their unopened shipping crates. That's why the 2 band rifles show up is such great condition most of the time.   

[Jobe Holiday]

Thanks, AT, the FP War is so interesting when it comes to arms!

J.

[squarehead1]

OK,
Now we got what it is that I found and passed along to my proto shooters. 
Now, for curiosity ( this will not be for sale) what is this worth?
We plan to get our 17 year old in shooting with this piece + replacement block.
Smart / stupid / cautions?
Thanks,
John Foley
Squarehead1

[Two Flints]

Photos     of your Spencer would be nice to see.  Didn't I write that once before  A photo is worth a thousand words    How much is it worth  Photos would be nice to see . . .oops, did I already write that  

Two Flints

[Arizona Trooper]

For starting out with black powder shooting, I would pick a muzzle loader. The Spencer is a neat rilfe for sure, but ammo will be a continuing problem and expense. You really need to get into reloading if you shoot a Spencer and that's almost as big an investment as the rifle itself.

I see by the N-SSA BB that you are in the Raleigh N.C. area. Go over to the Tidewater Region on the N-SSA page and contact one of the NC teams. They will know of someone near you that could help out with your Spencer, and help you select a good starter muzzle loader.

I'd suggest putting the Spencer aside and start your step-grandson with something like a reproduction Enfield 2 band rifle. They are good shooters, authentic for the Civil War (especially for Carolina troops), and if he doesn't do a good job cleaning it, it won't be such an expensive lesson as a rusty original Spencer would be. Give him the Spencer once he has shown that he can take care of a black powder rifle, and likes shooting black powder. Then it will be an investment that he will prize and value.

Good luck with it, and good shooting!

[Herbert]

I agree compleatly with ATs post,very good advice.Personly if I hade one of those Sringfield Spencers in exelent condition I would shoot it very sparinly,though I would have to shoot it,most colectord would disagree.I would have to be wiped before I could give it over to a inexperinced younster who may not apriciate what he has no matter how close he was,some thingd just have to be erned to be apreciated