44-40 W-W difficult to size.

[hmeier3842]

Using RCBS dies. I have no problem sizing R-P 44-40 with my dies.
But with W-W brass, using "One Shot" spray lube or RCBS lube, sizing is extremely difficult. Seemed like that I was going to pull the rim off of the case.
Have received suggestions for alternate lubes to buy.
Whom ever is sizing W-W brass with no problem, what brand die & lube are you using?
Also, am wondering is my old RCBS dies are smaller than current dies.
RCBS was no help.

[Pettifogger]

.44-40 brass varies quite a bit.  In fact, I don't like and most people I shoot with don't like RP brass as it seems to be a little large in some dimensions.  I use One Shot on .44-40 and it is no problem with Winchester brass.  I only use Winchester or Starline (they are vary similar in size) and gave all the RP away as it wouldn't load right without adjusting the dies.  The Winchester brass should size as easy or easier than the RP.  Kind of odd you find it harder.  Is it new brass?  Often on the first loading new brass is a lot harder to size than fired brass.  .44-40 has varied a lot over the years.  Originals and some copies are designed for .427 bullets.  New repros and Rugers tend to be .429 so they only have to make one size .44 barrel.  On my real OLD Dillon .44-40 caliber conversion I was having all kinds of problems squashing cases and causing bulges because it was designed for .427 bullets and came with a .425 expander.  I went down to Dillon and they gave me another expander for use with .429 bullets.  Newer RCBS dies are also probably set up for .429 bullets as that is what the majority of .44-40s produced in the last 50 years use.  (The chamber throats on newer guns also tends to be a little larger to accommodate the larger bullets.)  .44-40s can be a real challenge to load.  I have guns with bores that run from .423 to .435 with chambers that vary all over the spectrum.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

My sizing lube is IMPERIAL DIE WAX.  Works very well.

I have Old Vaqueros with the tight chambers. I have chosen not to have the chambers opened up.  Using .427 bullet sizing sizing dies I have a bullet that works in them and in both my Winchester 1873 and 1892.  My dies are LEE, which came with a .427 case mouth expander.  I switched it out to .429 from .44 Mag dies.  I size the cases normally but only run the .429 mouth sizer enough to funnel the case mouth allowing the bullet base to enter just enough to avoid crushing cases.  Slow, but sure.

[w44wcf]

hmeier3842,
Welcome to the forum.  I also have RCBS dies and reload Winchester and R-P brass in addion to other makes.  I use a lube pad and never noticed any difference in resizing between the two.....very smooth.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/274234/lyman-case-lube-pad
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/273709/lyman-case-sizing-lube-2-oz-liquid?cm_vc=sugv1274234

If the Winchester brass was once fired in another rifle, the chamber could have been bigger and thus the brass expanded a bit more which could take a bit more pressure on the press handle io resize.

w44wcf

[Trailrider]

You mention almost pulling the rims off the W-W cases....  Does this mean the problems you are experiencing are on removing the case from the die? I, too, use regular RCBS dies in .44-40. I use "RCBS Case Lube - 2", which is a water-soluble thick lube that comes in a squeeze bottle. Just a dab between thumb and forefinger wiped on the case is all that you need. As a matter of fact, you should wipe as much excess lube off the case to prevent putting oil dents in the case.

There is a "trick" in using the expansion die, depending on the diameter of bullet you are going to use: If you are shooting .427-.428" bullets, use the expander plug that comes with the three-die set.  However, if you are loading .429-.430" bullets (I, too, have Old Model Vaqueros with the looser chambers, but .425" throats!  , and load .430" bullets), then you need to order a .44 Magnum expander plug from RCBS.  My dies are decades old, so I'm not sure if RCBS has the expander dies for the .44-40 and the .44 Magnum with the same threads on the plug stem and the die body. If they still make them that way, then I'd order three extra locking collars (NOT the ones that secure the adjustment of the die body to the press, but the ones that secure the adjustment of the expander plug to the die body.  Adjust the expander plugs to the depth desired, then use two locking rings adjusted against each other on each plug. Don't tighten the lower one hard against the top of the die body, except until you lock the second ring against the lower one. Then "break" the plug loose from the die body so you can install and remove them with your fingers.  Do this on both the .44-40 plug and the .44 Magnum plug, and you can interchange the plugs for whichever bullet diameters you use.

[hmeier3842]

Thanks for the replies.
My R-P & W-W brass have been shot several times in the same barrel.
The barrel is an "over run" Winchester Model '94, 44-40, barrel with a 2 stamped over the 4.
I had purchased it from Gun Parts Co. as a '92, 44-40, and was surprised at the over stamp.
So, approx. same age brass shot in the same barrel chamber, cases lubed the same way. R-P noticeably easier to pull out of the die. W-W extremely difficult.
No other problems with the R-P cases. Maybe I can trade the W-W for R-P at local CASS Match.
Had not seen one for a couple of years.
Will also look for other lube at next gun show.

[Crow Choker]

I don't load or shoot 44-40, but I've always heard and read that Rem brass is thicker than W-W, Federal, and Starline. I load a variety of smokeless rifle, revolver, 45 acp, and reload 44 Colt with BP and have found some seem to resize easier than others, but never have had a stuck case or hard resizers in 36 yrs of doing it. The only exception was a stuck case resizing some militay 5.56 mm cases that after shooting the few I reloaded, never did again, they were a bugger to resize (have read that they are thicker than commercial brass). Have heard that W-W are the softest on the market, never read anything to prove or disprove. The worst cases I ever had were some S&W 357 branded cases that had short lives after 3-4 loadings due to splitting at the mouths, other cases with the same reloading times with the same components didn't. Don't know who loaded them for Smith or who made the brass.

[Jefro]

Howdy, I use Hornady One Shot case lube, and Hornady New Diminsion dies. I also have a set of Lee dies on a turret press. Never had a problem with W-W or any name brand brass. Don't see how changing case lube could help, One Shot's the best IMHO. Good Luck


Jefro Relax-Enjoy

[hmeier3842]

Sizing of W-W cases has improved.
I had been applying the One Shot lube then waiting not long after the one minute in the instructions.
I lubed several cases with One Shot then waited up to two hours for sizing. The cases were easier to pull out of the shell holder. Allmost as easy as the R-P cases. Will keep the W-W cases.

[Pettifogger]

Easier to pull out of the shell holder?  If that's the issue One Shot isn't going to help with that.

[longinosoap]

I, too got rid of all my R-P brass. Use W-W and Starline now. Guess I'm lucky. I use Lee dies with NO lube . Works fine. I get a bulged case once every 150 or so but I figured that was the price of shooting my favorite cartridge.

I used to lube with RCBS lube and pad every piece. Then I started lubing every 5th case. Worked better than every piece and didn't mess up my sizer die as badly. Finally tried no lube at all and ...TA DA... worked fine.

[hmeier3842]

Correction:
I should have wrote "easier to pull out of the die" instead of "easier to pull out of the shell holder".
Sorry for any confusion.

[litl rooster]

If I am not mistaken, One of the brass manafacturers Starline or Top recommend that with new .44-40 that you only partially size the case the FIRST time. Meaning don't full size the entire lenght of the case.  I don't know if this will help. I also use the Lee dies and like the other poster occassional get an "O crap" case.

I'd be happy to accept any R-P or Magtech or any other brass that any of you don't like.

[Pappy Myles]

Well, I've only loaded starline in my 44-40.   I have an old Rock Chucker with a piggy Back 2 set up.  More of a slow progressive if you will.   I use RCBS cowboy Dies.  After I tumble, I make sure all the corn cob media is out. Then I use a squirt or 2 ( 3 or 4) of Case Slick.  I let set for about 10 minutes and start.  Really havnt had any problems with 44-40

I have run into problems with 45 colt.   Not sure of the brass, maybe it was RP.  Anyway, even with Case Slick and cowboy (carbide) dies, on the neck siziing they would stick.  I've pulled off the rimes a couple of times and have played with the adjustment numerious times.  Hold that thought.

I've always had a problem with blowback in my 73 and my om vaqueros with 45 colt.  I tried everything in terms of powder - neck crimp adjustments, etc.  Nothing seamed to work.  So as an experiment, I started annealing the necks of my 45 colt on this neat (and a tad pricy) annealing machine that I use for my 223 308 3006, etc. Vola!, the blowback was gone.
Next time I reloaded that brass, I also didnt have any stick problems either.   Come to think of it, it might have been RP.

So, maybe annealing might help?

[wildman1]

Durn tootin it helps. I also am wipin BP lube off the bases of my bullets as I'm loadin and get a little sometimes on the outside of the cases before they go inta the sizin die seems ta work real slick no pun intended. WM