ERMA 'Gallagher' Carbine

[PJ Hardtack]

I really enjoy my BPCRs and carbines! I've run across one, that while interesting, doesn't have the best rep when it comes to accuracy or functional reliability - the Gallagher.
In .54, it's a one-owner/seldom-fired gun and comes with 10 brass cartridges to suit.

In Schiffer's book on "Civil War Carbines - Reality vs Myth", he rates the Gallagher dead last out of the dozen or so originals he test fired at 55-110-220 metres. He had the extraction problems the gun is known for and the abysmal accuracy. He saw no point if firing past 55m and even there, bullets either missed the target or keyholed.

Apparently, the ERMA retains the 1x72" ROT of the original. I read on the NSSA board that many shooters get them relined to .50 with a faster twist. That doesn't sound cost effective to me if you are still plagued with the extraction problems.
Some bright bulbs had theirs rechamberted to take Smith cartridges, but NSSA outlawed them as being too radical a departure from the historical arm. I thought the Maynard cartridge might be a better solution, if adaptbale to the action.

In the event that I opt to buy it, what's a fair price to pay for such a gun? Life must be pretty good if I think I can handle the aggravation of such a beast ... ;>)

[Patrick Henry Brown]

I just bought another Erma Gallager last month. Mine was unfired and cost me $525. I had one back in the early 90's that I shot for a while in the N-SSA competition until I sold it and switched to a Shiloh Sharps. Sold the Sharps later on as well. The Erma suffers only one drawback and that is the microgrooved 1-20 something twist machinegun barrel that the Germans used. With the Rapine mold designed for it, it shot well at 50 yds, but I never mastered it at 100 yds. At the time they made white plastic cartridges that blew apart after only a couple of reloads. I eventually bought the brass cases.

The Erma is a QUALITY repo of the Gallager carbine. The fit and finish is on the par with Shiloh, Pedersoli etc. My "new" Gallager is at Bob Hoyts as we speak being relined to 50 caliber from its 54 Erma MG barrel. It will be firing Lyman 515139 bullets when I get it back with a reported tack driving accuracy using the same brass cartridges available from Lodgewood and S&S. Hoyt charges $150 plus return shipping which is very fair IMHO. The man is tops in his field.

For the record, I never had any extraction problems with my first Gallager. None! I had more with my Pietta Smith and the plastic cases than I did with the Gallager. Regardless, it is simple to make an extraction tool from a piece of metal bar with a slightly oversize hole drilled to fit over the end of the casing and withdraw it at a cant. You could even put it on a cord around your neck. Bear in mind that the original cartidges were brass foil and paper. Todays cases are thick machined brass. For me, it made sense to buy the rifle at the price I paid and have it relined. I plan to keep it. YMMV.

[PJ Hardtack]

Preacher Clint

Thanks for the great feedback! An opinion based on 'been there-done that' experience instead of the expected internet drivel.

1x20" sounds very fast for a twist. I have a Shiloh 50-70 coming with 1x26", intended to stabilize 540 gr bullets. My Shiloh 50-70 MR has 1x36" for the Gov't 450 gr bullet; same for the .50 '63 carbine and rifle I have. The 1x36" is too slow for 540 gr bullets, keyholing badly.
".54 ERMA MG barrel ..."? Hmmm .. ;>) Are you sure 'bout that?  Relining does sound like the way to turn a sow's ear into a silk purse. What ROT will the relined barrel have? Since I make up paper rounds for my Shiloh '63s (two military, one .54 Sporter), experimenting with ammo is part of the fun.
I was at the range yesterday with my '63 .50 carbine and had a great time. Two guys either side of me were shooting scoped rifles from the bench; one high power, the other a custom M-H .44 mag . I was shooting offhand, having decided to use the carbine for spring bear.
After putting 5 rds into 4" (three of them within 1-1/2"), I started ringing the 100 yd 10"x12" gong, offhand, that the 'bench' shooters were engaging. They challenged me to go for the pig we have at 150 and I rang it 3 for 5. They weren't laughing anymore at my 'paper' Sharps ... ;>)
Cleaning the carbine at home, I broke the head of the flash hole clean out screw! Merde! I had coated the threads with anti-seize compound, so I was surprised. The gas plate is developing some cavitation , so I'll be sending the block to Shiloh for screw removal and fitting of a new gas plate. Part of the joy of shooting period rifles ... ;>)

[Patrick Henry Brown]

Funny thing about that is that Erma intended this to be shot with a soft lead round ball. I actually tried that for a while. The Rapine bullet worked pretty good, but relining to 50 cal is probably the best solution. I just agreed to the purchase of a Pedersoli 1859 Sharps carbine and have an 1859 Infantry rifle being delivered today via Fedex. Been buying and selling again. LOL! Both are in 54 cal. I had a Shiloh back in the 90's and it was great. These Pedersolis need some work. The carbine is already done, but I'm sending the rifle to Charlie Hahn for modification of the sliding sleeve in the chamber and breechblock mods.

By the way, my understanding is that Erma used surplus 12.7mm (?) machine gun barrels for the barrels of the Gallagers. Said they got two out of each MG barrel.

[JimBob]

Now that Rapine is closed down is there any other source for some these oddball bullet moulds he made for thevarious CW period firearms?

[Ol Gabe]

Just for the sake of discussion only...
I 'think' Grizzle Bear over on the NCOWS forum may have one or had one as he brought something like what you are describing to an NCOWS Convention up at Waterloo, IA many years ago.
Is this the rifle where it breaks open side-to-side instead of top-to-bottom? If so then that is what he had and he chatted about many of the same things above mentioned as close as I can recall. He said at the time that he was using and showed us the brass casings.
Hope this may help, if not, Good Luck!
'Ol Gabe

[Kent Shootwell]

I bought one a couple of weeks ago for $180 from a fellow that had it may years and never fired it. It came with two casings and the spare nipple. Other then a few dings from being in his closet it's new. It seems well built and works fine. The cases do hold a .535" round ball well and perhaps that is what was intended.  I did find it strange to see the rifling so shallow and fast. Reading up on them it should have a case harden receiver and lock besides the proper rifling. I didn't get to fire it as my buddy heard about it the next morning and bought it.(I made $20 bucks) I would think having it sleeved to 54 calibre and using the original cases would be a good way to go since that's the point of shooting these old time guns.   

[PJ Hardtack]

Thanks, guys! I appreciate the input.

Since I can get the Gallagher at what I regard as a 'steal' (c/w 10 cases, wads, balls, mould for conicals) I think I'll take it for the challenge of making it shoot acceptably, at least to 50 yards.

Preacher - yep, 12.7mm equates to .50 calibre. Looks like ERMA may well have used MG barrels to make them. I didn't realize MA Deuce had such a fast ROT.

The current owner told me he shot it only with PRB. He didn't mention how he lubed them. I have on hand two .54 conical moulds; one Lee .54 Minie and one NEI 540 gr 'Xmas Tree' for my .54 Shiloh. Also a 550 RB mould, balls from which I could swadge to suit.
I've got a whack of Charlie Hahn's paper tubes, the kind that socket over the 'ringtail' of the Sharps 'Xmas Tree' bullets. I'm wondering if they would work in a Gallagher ....? There would be no gas seal as when using a brass case, but since there were paper and brass/foil original cases, quien sabe ...?
I only looked at one of the seller's brass cases and it was a reduced capacity case, a lip at the mouth where he placed a wad. Is that the norm? Doesn't look like much of a powder charge.

Ol' Gabe - the Gallgher barrel breaks, much like the Maynard and Sharps & Hankins, but it also drops down; a real turkey of a design! That's what appeals to me ... ;>)

Schiffer's book mentions that only the early Gallaghers had slow twist barrels. Later models used a faster ROT, and he had no example to test. I'm hoping that the ERMA's fast twist will stabilize a heavier conical, as it does in other BPCRs. If not, I may opt to get it relined to .50 and try the 350 gr Spencer bullet.

[Trailrider]

Too bad nobody is making a repro of the 5th Model Burnside.  If they duplicated the originals exactly as to twist, etc., you'd have real winner! Just MHO.

[PJ Hardtack]

Trailrider

Well, your opinion coincides with Schiffer's. Of the 12 original carbines he evaluated, the Burnside placed second. Here's the order in which they finished:

Sharps & Hankins
Burnside
Sharps '63
2nd model Maynard
'64 Joslyn
Merrill
Starr
1860 Spencer
Gwyn & Campbell
Smith
Starr
Gallagher

The guns were tested for function, reliability and accuracy using ammunition as near original as he could make it. My only issue was that in a couple of cases, he didn't use lube as he could find no historical record of it and no trace of it on original bullets. He suspects that smart soldiers lubed them externally.
In some cases, it was the ammo, not the design that was the problem. He speculates that had the Sharps '63 been chambered in the Spencer round, it would have been a world beater, and easier to convert to centrefire.

[PJ Hardtack]

Well, I added the Gallagher to the stable yesterday. When I got it home, the first thing I did was to establish the ROT - an incredible 1x18"! That's what Shiloh currently puts in 45-70s for BPCR silhouette for long, heavy bullets.
That means that since the chamber takes up part of the 20" barrel, the bullet makes one complete revolution in the barrel.

The gun is built like a tank, well finished and as archaic as hell - part of it's great appeal for me. It came with an unused Lee REAL mould, 300 RWS caps, 12 brass cases, wads, etc. I have two other .54 moulds on hand, so I'm hoping the gun likes at least one bullet design. The previous owner only shot it with RB, but iI can't see them stabiizing in such a fast twist.
It has been suggested that I could alter my Rapine 'Xmas Tree' bullets by lopping off the base, and I may try that as well.

I'm already planning on making up some foil/paper cartridges to alleviate the extraction problem (if there's going to be one), one of the historic rounds for the Gallagher, using one of the brass cases as a mandrel.

If all this is for naught, then I'll look at relining to .50 calibre.

[Patrick Henry Brown]

I did shoot my first Erma for a while with the round ball. I used wheel weights. It was ok in the accuracy dept for 50 yds. Beyond that it was hit and miss. BTW, brass is available from Lodgewood Mfg. and S&S Firearms.

[PJ Hardtack]

Thanks Preacher!

I'm surprised that RB grouped at all with the fast twist. I was offered some by the seller, but I declined. I think I'll take him up on the offer now. If they don't group, I'll melt them down and recast as bullets.
With the 12 cases that came with the rifle and some offered me by a Shiloh forum friend, I'm OK for a spell.

[Patrick Henry Brown]

BTW, I hate to see you cut up that Rapine Sharps mold. Especially since I'm in the market for one. LOL! Just got a Pedersoli 59 Carbine in 54 cal. & an Armi-Sport 1859 Infantry Rifle in 54. The Pedersoli is coming with an Ideal 557489 mold. I may be able to use that with the AS. I'll just have to wait and see. I'm waiting on both to arrive, just as I am on my Gallager from Bob Hoyt for the reline. I ended up with the Armi-Sport after buying and returning a Pedersoli from Track of the Wolf that had the chamber sleeve and breech flange solidly frozen and immovable.

[Cap'n Redneck]

Howdy!

As a fellow Erma Gallager owner I thought I'd put forth some facts & figures:
The original Gallager had a 1-72" twist barrel with three wide lands and 3 wide grooves of .50" / 12.7mm calibre.
The Erma has a 1-18" (I have not verified the twist) twist barrel with 16 lands and grooves of .54" / 13.7mm calibre.
The 13.7mm barrel comes from the German WW2 Heavy Machine Gun. 
The American Browning (Ma Deuce) is a 12.7mm with 1-15" twist.   
(By coincident the US Hall breechloading rifle also had 16 lands and grooves.)

I shoot mine with the turned brass cartridges from Dixie Gun Works and the old Rapine 300gr. bullet cast from pure lead.
Extraction has not been a problem with these loads.
As stated above: accuracy at 50yds. is outstanding, but suffers at longer distances... much of it due to crude sights and a somewhat hard trigger pull.

[slowhands]

 Hi all. slowhands here I am new to this forum and  reading the posts on the erma gallagher so I thought i would check with you guys about types of brass cases for this carbine. I owned one back around 1979 or 1980 and at the time the cases that came with it had a deeper shoulder in them . That allowed me to shoot various size bullets .533, .535  which worked very well.  I now own another one and would like to get some of  those cases again. As you all know the cases today have the shoulder closer to the case mouth and I am having a tough time finding bullets that will fit  The ones Dixie says will work are out of stock and they are not sure when they will get more. Also since Rapine is gone I can't find a mold either.

Any help with this would be greatly appreciated or if anyone has some of those cases they would be willing to sell I would be interested.
Thanks.

[tomb29]

Had the good fortune to see a couple of Gallaghers in action two weekends ago at Ft Shenandoah, at the N-SSA nationals. I'm interested in getting one. I have posted a want in the classified section but was wondering if anyone here knows of one that might be for sale?
tomb29

[PJ Hardtack]

tomb29

Did you by any chance inquire as to whether those Gallaghers were relined to .50 calibre? If I hadn't had mine done, I think it would have been sold off.
I like odd ball guns and the Gallagher sure qualifies on that count. I still don't shoot it as much as I'd like to, but it's great for ringing a 10" x 12" gong at 50 yds!

I haven't had a single problem with mine and the 'stuck case' remover I made is still unused.

[tomb29]

PJ Hardtack, I talked with the owners (father and son) and they said they were still in the .54 cal but were going to be relined after this years competition. They seemed to shoot well the way they were but going to the same bullet as the Smith and the Burnside just makes more sense as the originals were .50 cal anyway. Do hope I can find one in either cal.