Video - Round ball vs Conical performance series Part 3

Bottom Dealin Mike · April 16, 2012, 06:22:36 AM

This is the final episode of a three part series comparing the performance characteristics of various projectiles shot from a Colt style 1860 Army cap and ball revolver. In this series we will measure the accuracy, velocity and muzzle energy and penetration of round ball versus conical bullets. This episode will examinef the performance test of Kaido's 240-grain conical bullets.

Cliff Fendley · April 16, 2012, 07:16:02 AM

Mike, I don't mean to criticize but there is one thing that would be very interesting to compare in these tests.

I'd really like to see a test with the round ball loaded with a max charge to compare it's energy and penetration.

I'd venture to say the conicals will nearly always give better accuracy but I believe loading one projectile to less than it's max powder charge is not giving it a fair comparison in the other categories. You said conicals are the way to go when you mean serious business but in that case anyone should be loading whatever projectile to it's max charge.

In my Pietta 44's 30 grains is not really even getting good compression on the powder charge. 35-36 grains seems to be the more appropriate loading for a round ball.

Thanks for doing these tests and sharing the results, it is very informative.

hellgate · April 16, 2012, 03:31:02 PM

I notice that each time you do a penetration test you get even farther back! Lesson learned. ;>)

Sir Charles deMouton-Black · April 16, 2012, 05:21:35 PM

These tests are a pretty good demonstration that the heavier the projectile, the higher the strike of the bullet.

It is my experience that velocity has very little effect as recoil jump is neutralized by barrel time.

FenceFighter · April 16, 2012, 06:03:36 PM

Thanks for publishing the tests. I've pretty much gone by what I've read concerning projectiles, and it looks like I got good info, but good to see testing in living color. I want to start rolling my own paper cartridges with Pyrodex , and I'll probably try roundball in the 1851 Navies just for convenience of side carry, while mining and gold panning. I plan to test the loads out with wet phone books (they keep piling up around here) and I'll run some conicals through my Remmies. Has anybody devised any good knock down loads for the .44 cal Reb Colts ? I guess the brass frames need reduced powder, but I'd like something that hits harder than just enough to piss off the target.
Cordially,
Fence

Lefty Dude · April 16, 2012, 07:12:33 PM

I use my 1851 Reb's for CAS/SASS using round balls. I shoot my 1860 for everything else.

We just cut the barrels of my SIL's 58 Remmys from 8" to 6 1/2" dovetailed the barrel for a modified Marbels low profile rifle front sight. (Now adjustable)

Makes for a very nice shooting platform.

Sir Charles deMouton-Black · April 16, 2012, 10:34:47 PM

Fencefighters mention of phone books reminds me.

Mike; The fourth branch of your test program would be to test for terminal effects. It was Elmer Keith, if I recall that commented that roundball seemed to have killing power beyond expectations. Phone books might not be a good test, but ballistic gel might?

FenceFighter · April 17, 2012, 01:52:04 AM

[size=12Sir Charles , that terminal damage would seem to be at the crux of the issue. I read a reference from a 19th century journal on this or another forum, that bemoaned the effectiveness of wheelgun roundball on wild game. Seems to me their party ran into a herd of some kind of critters, and conicals penetrated & killed, while ball shot barely got through the hides, of whatever it was, I can't remember, but seems like it was Antelope. I'd be the last to differ with the venerable Mr. Keith, but I'm just relating what the old Westerner wrote.
Fence pt][/size]

Driftwood Johnson · April 17, 2012, 12:43:17 PM

QuoteThese tests are a pretty good demonstration that the heavier the projectile, the higher the strike of the bullet.

It is my experience that velocity has very little effect as recoil jump is neutralized by barrel time.

Howdy

I've been saying that for years, but everybody always argues with me an gives me the baloney about faster bullets getting out of the barrel before the muzzle has much time to rise.

Question for Mike:

When you seat these conical projectiles are you shaving any lead at all? It appears like a fair amount of lube shaved off the projectile and smooshed up around the bullet. I would think it would be difficult to shave lead off of a bullet shaped projectile, with its longer bearing surface than a bullet. Are you shaving any lead at all? If not are you confident you are getting a good enough seal in the chamber to prevent a chain fire? Please don't tell me that stuff about all chain fires happening around the nipple, I have had chain fires that I know happened because a spark found its way past a dent in the ball.

Bottom Dealin Mike · April 17, 2012, 02:45:38 PM

Hi Driftwood,

I didn't notice lead shavings, but I have no doubt I'm getting a good seal.

The chambers on the Uberti 1860 are .4485" in diameter. My 220-grain conical has a .4505" base and a .4555" driving band.

My supposition is that they are being swaged down into the chambers.

Kaido's slug has a slightly smaller base, but the same size driving bands.

hellgate · April 17, 2012, 03:18:49 PM

Fence fighter,
I think I read somewhere when someone was trying to shoot or finish off a buffalo and there was a huge difference between the effectiveness between a Colt Navy and a Dragoon but I'm not sure.

Driftwood Johnson · April 17, 2012, 03:57:04 PM

Thanks Mike.

FenceFighter · April 18, 2012, 04:21:25 PM

@Hellgate; Thanks,
That might have been the reference. I'm at the point when finding & bringing back a memory, is an uphill journey, both ways.
Thanks,
Fence

Bottom Dealin Mike · April 18, 2012, 05:09:58 PM

This is from "Firearms of the American West - 1864 to 1894" by Garavaglia and Worman

"Theodore Davis, who toured the plains in 1868 wrote:

'Of the revolvers in use for [buffalo hunting] the old style Dragoon pistol of the Colt pattern seems to be the favorite, though the bullet that it shoots is no heavier than the present style known as Colt's army revolver.The pistol itself is heavier and more steady to shoot, and the cylinder is chambered for more powder. I am not aware that this arm is any longer manufactured. The Plains men who possess a pair hold them in great esteem.'"