Boot Knives During The Civil War?

[Dispatch]

Were boot knives carried in this manner if so, what size and style were the knives used during the civil war?
Does anyone have and pic's of actual examples? 

[St. George]

If you're asking about knives that were carried in the boot during the Civil War - given that pretty much everyone besides Cavalrymen and Officers wore shoes - it'd've been difficult, and damned inconvenient on the march...

If you're asking about small side knives and dirks - prior to the revolving pistol era, when most sidearms were single-shot, then many different sizes and types of knives were carried as back-up, and that practice carried over for some time.

The 'back pages' of this forum and those of the 'Cutting Edge' forum discuss this - do some digging there, and look for 'daggers' or 'dirks' - short-bladed (4"-5"), double-edged knives with crossguards.

Scouts Out!

[Bugscuffle]

The soldiers that fought with knives during the Civil War all got shot.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

The soldiers that fought with knives during the Civil War all got shot.

Documentation?

Seriously, The "style" of the pre-war and early civil war seemed to run to the larger bowies or daggers, like St George says. As the war progressed kit was shed, leaving only the practical necessities. Now as most soldiers were countrymen or urban workmen, they would be used to carrying simple pocket knives. Small knives would seem reasonable as utility items, but to carry a specific style of small knife, either folding or fixed is something I've not heard about.

[Galloway]

Id also like to see some originals if anyone has some pics. It seems all I can ever find is d guard bowies from that era.

[St. George]

See if your public library can order you a copy of Flayderman's 'The Bowie Knife'.

It's 'all' period stuff.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[Burt Blade]

When I was a young man in the Army, I carried a boot knife for a while. After I had worn a nasty patch on my leg after a long sweaty walk, I carried my knife elsewhwere. The sweat did not do that cheap knife any favors either.

[Bugscuffle]

I would think that the boot knife was a camp tool more than a fighting knife. The soldiers had bayonets for fighting which would allow them to stay at a safer distance from a knife wielding opponent while scewering him. A smaller more handy camp knife would be much more practical.

[hawkeye2]

     First, a lot of calvery wore brogans rather than boots.  Second, the Army dress regulations called for the trousers to be worn over the boot/shoe durring the CW.  I can't imagine getting in a knife fight on horseback.  I suspect most references to boot pistols and knives were post war fiction.

[St. George]

A knife fight on horseback was called a Cavalry Engagement - fast-moving, bloody affairs...

The common soldier - by mid-war - would have had almost zero use for something like a boot knife or dirk, unless he'd figured out something else he could do with it.

By that time, an experienced soldier on campaign was stripped down to the barest of essentials - usually a rubber blanket, canteen, spoon and cup, and cartridge pouch.

The spare shirt and socks (if any) were rolled up inside the blanket - the issued haversack proving an encumberance.

A 'boot knife' is one of those things that seems like a good idea, until it's tried and it's found to be more of a pain (literally) than it's continued use would warrant.

The most famous users of the concept were American Paratroopers of WWII - who strapped an M3 Trench Knife to the sides of their Corcorans, in the event they'd get hung up in a tree or otherwise rendered weaponless.

Those M3's would find their way back onto the webbing as soon as possible, because the damned things caught on everything one can find on the ground.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[Burt Blade]

Highly concur. These boots were made for walking, not cutlery storage.   

The highly-salty "upside-down knife on web-gear suspenders, for fast access" was also not a winner. I know several folks who lost good knives that way, crawling around in the weeds and brush. One fellow wished he had only lost his. Something stripped it out, and he crawled onto it, skewering his thigh. Nasty.

I carry a honkin' big-n-flashy ivory-handled Damascus Bowie as part of my Cowboy outfit. I am a Hollywood cowboy. Would never carry this thing in the field. It is costume jewelry for Cowboys. (hand made, by me.)

There is much stuff we do in SASS that is "costume", not "common sense": 450fps mini-bullets, speed holsers that barely hold guns. Shotguns with the lock bolts ground down to barely-functional nubs.

If a boot knife or boot gun works for your CAS outfit, great. If we all dressed the same, it would be a bit dull.

[Books OToole]

I read an account of a Lt. carrying pistols in his boots.  I tried it: I was most uncomfortable.  He was mounted and I was not.  That might make a difference, but I think not.

Books

[Mogorilla]

I wear boots, pants tucked in, and botas over as my boots are not PC (beeves, not calfs describe me best)  In the bota I carry a knife.  After about 4 hours I have a red sore on my calf from where the knife rides.   I also have a single shot pistol that I slip down the boot or attached to the bota.  It has never lasted the 4 hours due to comfort.  I cannot imagine marching like that.

[The Elderly Kid]

I've seen period illustrations of people carrying knives and pistols in their boot tops. All of them were pre-Civil War. All of them depicted mounted men. The boots of that era were wider-topped than in later times, and were convenient places to stash things when riding - not only weapons but papers, etc. The small "boot knife" is a modern fantasy, I fear.

[Professor Marvel]

The small "boot knife" is a modern fantasy, I fear.

Greetings My Dear Kid -
There is one exception - that is the Scottish Sgian-dubh or Stocking Knife. Whilst Technically as a stocking knife it might not count as a boot-knife it is rather close....

yhs
prof marvel

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

I have an older German style hunting knife made by Henkels.  I made a sheath with a tab to fit over my boot top.  I carried it for a few shoots, just for style, mind you!  I stopped doin' dat when I realized that my ankle was chaffing. And the pointy end of the knife was nowhere near my ankle. At first I thought it was my new boots, or my antique cavalry spurs.  Then the german silver cap dissapeared off the end of the handle, so I stopped wearing the boot knife.

Guess what

The chaffing at my ankle stopped!

The whole idea of a bootknife during any activity is impractical, IMHO.  And remember, cowboys were/are working men!  I think the highlander's sgian dubh, or the vaqueros belduque in the top of a bota works because it is suspended from a garter or tie and not weighing down pressing boot leather into the ankle. And I think more belduques are carried tucked into a belt or sash than sticking out of ankles!

[The Elderly Kid]

In any case, the sgian dubh was more symbolic than practical. After the failure of the 1745 Rebellion the English cracked down on the Highlanders, forbidding them to posess arms, not only pistols and muskets but their traditional broadswords and dirks. But the law said nothing about the sgian dubh so Scots took to wearing them ostentatiously in the tops of their stockings. They quickly shrank to no more than 3" blades and acquired elaborate decorations, becoming male jewelry and a way to defiantly express one's Scottishness without transgressing the law.