Metal liners revisited.

Slowhand Bob · April 18, 2011, 07:29:10 AM

I hope to have a little time for playing with leather after the first of the month and one of my projects is to see if I can improve on the techniques for putting metal liners in holsters. The ones I done a year or so back turned out well BUT the methods were to time consuming and probably not really safe to use regularly with the sharp edged sheet metals. I have not used aluminum but do understand it was/is popular for the purpose and would probably be easier fabricate? Not having any background in sheet metal work certainly doesn't help so my techniques were probably not the greatest but so far the holsters are still out there and no bad feedback has reached me yet. Since I was using steel, which I figure gives more rigidity for its thickness, there was the idea that reducing weight would also be desirable. Punching a few well placed holes seemed to offer a couple of other advantages in addition to the weight reduction, in my mind.

I liked the idea of keeping as much leather to leather glue contact as possible, the more and larger the holes the better for this idea. If you are doing all forming by hand then you quickly find that compound bends are really hard to perform neatly and the important one for me was at the juncture of the skirt and the mouth of the holster. Ideally two things were going on here, the holster is curling into its round cylindrical shape and the skirt is starting to fold back towards the belt fold, pretty radically for the holster stand out shape I wanted. Another real world thing that I have seen happen hear, at this spot, on many old metal lined holsters is the gouging away of the leather against the rigid metal backing and a reason I decided at a young age that metal liners were not good. My solution for all problems at this transition point was to have a fairly large hole in the metal here, it eases the metal forming and allows the flexibility of unbacked leather at this wear point. Still not going to stop gouging with real sharp cylinder edges but perhaps it will help some??

Just a few thoughts from someone who has never seen how a real production shop handles metal liners but did want to try it. I did assemble everything flat just as I would with my regular lined holsters and formed the holster in steps as needed for sewing and final fitting on an aluminum mold copy of the gun. I am still not to sure that I have seem much advantage to the metal liner when compared to some very rigid heavy leather holsters I have and feel that hand made metal lined one offs would be extremely expensive (and possibly dangerous) for a custom holster maker to perform. Would love to hear of better techniques if anyone would share with us before I start another one. At any rate I will try to do some crude photos of the job as it meanders along.

Chuck 100 yd · April 18, 2011, 09:31:04 AM

Slowhand Bob , I have done some thinking along those same lines and even bought some Kydex (sp?) to try.
I will be following your post to glean some ideas.

Wolf Tracker · April 18, 2011, 04:12:38 PM

Slowhand Bob I am also curious to see what you come up with since I also have some Kydex laying around that I have used for some modern action pistol magazine holsters and have wondered about using them in leather holsters. I believe Kirkpatrick has some holsters that use it.

TN Mongo · April 18, 2011, 07:06:08 PM

I've had good success with aluminum in the past, but I also would like to try some kydex.

The holsters I've lined with aluminum were pretty heavy to start with. I use 8-9oz. on top with a 6-7oz. liner with aluminum inbetween. So far, I've ony put the aluminum down the skirt and the back of the holster pouch. The shooters who asked for this wanted to be able to pull the holster pouch away from their body more to facilitate eaiser access to their pistols.

Slowhand Bob · April 20, 2011, 08:28:56 AM

TN, though I have not used kydex yet, it has interested me also and I do have several concealment holsters made from it. You can find a fair amount of info and instruction for working kydex over on u-tube and there is also a bit of info on sheet metal working tips and techniques there. Keeping the inserts/stiffeners in the belt loop area will surely simplify the job greatly and as mentioned earlier, going lower into the holster can have some drawbacks that must be addressed. I think that lining the holster body itself goes back to fast draw where the gun is cocked while still in the holster.

TN Mongo · April 21, 2011, 06:46:50 PM

I have had some people ask me if I could repair steel lined holsters where the gun had worn through the lining leather. I have politely refused. Looking at those holsters always made me leery of lining the whole holster pouch in metal. My holsters are thick enough without adding metal to the pouch.

I have watched the youtube videos on Kydex holsters. I think it would work well if I could find a good shape to mold the hot plastic over. If only I hadn't thrown out that Mattel "vacum-form" toy machine I had as a kid!

Slowhand Bob · April 22, 2011, 06:52:46 AM

Forming the Kydex hot is the part that really plays with my head. If it was preformed before holster construction, assembly and sewing would be almost impossible. If inlaid flat and formed after final assembly then we are talking about heating the holster leather also and and?

And to think, those who do this are doing it with holsters that have full coverage embossing and the end project shows no ill effects from all of the presure fitting, heating, sewing and only God knows what else.

TN Mongo · April 23, 2011, 06:23:47 PM

Maybe there are different types (hardnesses) Kydex. If it was a little flexible, it could be sewn on a machine or by hand after it had been molded and sandwiched between to pieces of leather.

Wolf Tracker · April 23, 2011, 07:11:05 PM

There are different thicknesses of Kydex but as far as I know they are all fairly stiff until heated, I don't think that they could be sewn through unless the holes were pre-drilled. One thought I had was that instead of using a whole sheet and forming a holster around it maybe small strips can be used to give the leather extra support/rigidity.

Slowhand Bob · April 24, 2011, 08:20:32 AM

I think TN Mongo had the right idea with the liner being restricted to the belt loop fold but many shooters want it to extend into the throat to keep it open and flare that outer lip. Those shooters who are buying the lower end revolvers do not understand that the rapid wear in the throat of their holsters comes not from the leather worker but rather from the gun manufacturer but that inflexible spot that the pistol hits first doesnt help.

Ten Wolves Fiveshooter · April 24, 2011, 09:23:17 AM

Slowhand, you're right, about the the wear, when I was trained for quick/fast draw,years ago, I was told also, to practice my technique of re-holstering my gun, this is a practice that has been lost over time, but once you have mastered it, you can re-holster your gun without scaring the throat of the holster, I've seen like new rigs that were so badly scuffed up, from re-holstering just from placing the gun in at a wrong angle and scuffing and gouging the throat , and even steel lined holster didn't help with this, it all fell on the user and in some cases as you pointed out cheap guns where the cylinder wasn't chamfered / sharp edges taken off at front of cylinder, didn't help things.

tEN wOLVES

Massive · December 17, 2011, 02:41:45 AM

Just been reading through this old thread. There is a stiffer Kydex type material, called Concealex. Some say it is harder to work with, than Kydex. but I found the opposite true. Just beginners luck I guess. It is hard yet flexible. I have a keyholder, and wallet rig that are now all blown out, but they lasted for a long time, snap in and out many times a day. and quite a lot of displacement, as they were actually latching onto the keys, not just slip formed to them. I would recommended it.

The bad news is that apparently either is uber bad for you, so read up, and take ample precautions when using the stuff.

outrider · December 17, 2011, 06:22:00 AM

Mongo,

If you try sewing Kydex I hope you have alot of needles.....

Slowhand Bob · December 17, 2011, 08:27:18 AM

WOW, an old post got wakened. I have not tried to work with kydex yet and just might not ever get the itch but there are definite questions that would need to be answered for me first. Being of the slick nature that the plastic seems to have, what in the world would one use to get good adhesion to the leather surfaces? Perhaps it would not be as big a deal as I am making out of it, getting good adhesion with metal liners turned out to be much easier than I had feared. The biggy is the heat moulding required, would the inner kydex lining need to be shaped out first and then have the leather rolled into it or is the process of shaping done after a flat assembly?? My last question, and the most relevant, can an old dawg learn new tricks? $:-\$

PS: I love the new Santa's!

Massive · December 18, 2011, 11:28:13 AM

The Adhesive info is on their website in various PDFs. Smooth is not a problem. Main thing about rough with plastics is it gets rid of contamination. Which isopropyl will also do. People think the adhesive cling to a rough service is the a big deal, and it can be important, but it is the lessor part compared to the molecular bonding. Of course if one uses the wrong glue so there isn't a bond, then the adhesive cling is whatcha got.

Kinda thing I see all the time, is specs say alcohol to clean. Forumite substitutes Acetone, because it is "stronger". Acetone has trace oils, bond fails, Forumite blames insufficient roughness. Roughs up the substrate removing oils, and gets good bond, a new myth is born. However, a good process is made up of many parts, so go with what work...

JD Alan · December 19, 2011, 07:54:43 PM

I hope I can wade in here with a couple of questions. I've made one metal lined holster, running from the top down the front, stopping just above cylinder. That was at the request of the customer, allowing him to bend it and have it stay as he wanted.

If I wanted to line both the skirt and front, would it be advisable to go over the top of the belt with one piece, or would it make more sense to use two pieces, running them up to the top of the belt but not over it?

I've not tried wrapping metal around the body of the holster yet, but for those of you that have, how much metal is advisable? Do you just wrap it around the throat?

Last question; how much extra, if any, do you chagre to line a holster? I'm getting more questions about them every time I shoot.

Thanks guys, JD

Boothill Bob · December 20, 2011, 04:14:14 AM

I belive I wold use metal in front of kydex.. When you have formed the kydex is have that form, cant shape it..
But with metal the custumer can shape it like he wants it.

TN Mongo · December 26, 2011, 11:26:46 AM

JD,

Good to hear from you again. The metal lined holsters I have built have all used aluminum that I purchased at one of the big box stores. I cut it out with a band saw and the liner goes all the way down the skirt of the holster over the belt fold and down almost all the way of the backside of the holster pocket.

I could extend a piece of the aluminum to go all the way around the throat of the holster pockect, but I've never had to do that because I use a total of 15-16 oz. leather and I flair the opening when I wet fit the holster.