A natural dye to get a reddish mahogany/ox blood color?

[bedbugbilly]

Does anyone out there know of a formula or way to make a "natural dye" from easily obtainable ingredients that will give leather a reddish, mahogany color?  I know that you can buy commercially made dyes and I've tried some but I am switching to more "natural" dyes for my leatherwork.  I'm not of a "scientific mind" - only had to take one Chemistry class in my life in HS and my college degrees didn't involve science.  I'm hoping some of you that have a chemistry background might be able to help.

I've had great succcess with the vinegaroon for black and am going to make up several batches of "coffee" dye  and "pecan husk" dye.  I'd like to have a natural red dye available but don't have a clue on where to begin.

As I said, I'm not strong in chemistry.  I'm wondering if there is a solution that copper could be disolved in that would produce reddish tones - maybe somethng similar to "vinegaroon" where iron is disolved in vinegar to produce a deep black?

I've tried Googling but haven't come up with much.  Any suggestions, advice, formulas, etc. would be greatly appreciated.  And if I'm nuts for wanting to come up with a naturaly reddish dye - just say so.  It wouldn't be the first time somebody told me that!   

[Mogorilla]

Hey BBB,
Try finding Annatto or Achiote (if you have a strong Central American/South American community, their stores will carry it).  It is what makes margarine yellow and cheese orange.   It is a reddish powder that when brewed strong enough and mixed with a light walnut may get you close.   If you can find an extract of cochineal insects (also from south america) they are used to get red dye since pre-columbian times.    I have tried the annatto, I had limited amounts, so I got a golden tan that was nice, but not the mahoganny I was looking for.


Here are some I found from: 

http://www.pioneerthinking.com/crafts/crafts-basics/naturaldyes.html

- Elderberry - red

- Red leaves will give a reddish brown color I use salt to set the dye.

- Sumac (fruit) - light red
- Sycamore (bark)- red
- Dandelion (root)
- Beets - deep red
- Bamboo - turkey red
- Crab Apple - (bark) - red/yellow
- Rose (hips)
- Chokecherries
- Madder (root) - red
- Hibiscus Flowers (dried)
- Canadian Hemlock - (bark) reddish brown
- Japanese Yew - (heartwood) - brown dye
- Wild ripe Blackberries
- Brazilwood
- St. John's Wort - (whole plant) soaked in alcohol - red
- Bedstraw (root) - red

I am a chemist and if you were going to get red from a metal, it would be iron.  I have thought about trying copper to see if it would give you a green/blueish hue, but have not taken the time to do it.   

[Cliff Fendley]

I've been wanting to try pokeweed to see what would happen. Looks like it would make a reddish dye since the Indians used it to paint their horses. I thought even adding Pokeweed juice to walnut dye might make it have a reddish brown color. Another summer has come and gone though so will be a while before I could try it. Too many ideas and not enough time

[bedbugbilly]

Thanks much fellas - all great "food for thought".  After I posted my inquiry, I got to thinkng about copper and figured that it would probably give a green hue instead of a reddish one. 

I never gave a thoght to using beets for the red base and then mixing other things in to try and get the mahogany color.  From cooking beets, I do know that the water/juice is a bright red and perhaps using that as a base coat and applying another natural dye over it would give the desired effect.  One thing I do have this winter is time so I'll do some samples and see what I come up with.

Back in Michigan, we have elderberries in the swampy low spots.  I used to harvest the berries when I was a kid and my mother made great pies out of them.  A few years back, I boiled some up and dyed a haversack made out of "fustian" - I was hoping it would tturn out more reddish but instead, it ended up being a bluish gray - still was attractive even if the final results surprised me.

At our place here in AZ, we have a large prickly pear cactus in the backyard - has been planted since we built four years ago.  When we got out here in Oct., it was covered with what looked like a bumpy fungus.  We asked around and we were told that this is quite common on prickly pear - it is caused by a bug of some sort.  You can hose it off but it is still a mess.  We noticed that when we hosed it off, there was a bright red left on the wound of the cactus leaf and the pieces of crap (for want of a better word) that we hosed off.  We were told by someone that several well known AZ artists actually harvest this stuff from the prickly pear and use it to color their paints.  My wife took a class on making hand felted slippers from Alpaca last Saturday and she said the instructor tole her that some of the gals in her fiber guild harvest it to use for dying their yarn.

Mogorilla - if a person was going to try to dissolve copper (wire, pennies, etc.) to see what they ended up with color wise for a dye, what is the best liquid/solution to use?  Would vinegar work on the copper like it does on the iron nails?

Thanks for the great information and I hope others will post what they've tried for making natural dyes for leather - all very interesting.   

[Mogorilla]

Hey Bedbug,
that stuff on the cactus, that is the cochineal insects I was talking about.  They will give you a red dye for sure.   
My thoughts on the copper is that with Vinegaroon, you are making iron(II) acetate, in a solid form, this is a rust red powder.  If you can get the straight chemical, mixed with a little vinegar and you have instant vinegaroon.   My thoughts were making copper acetate the same way.  Just letting copper wire dissolve in vinegar.   I am taking loads of classes, so my experimental time is limited, so I have not tested it.   

[Drayton Calhoun]

I'm working on a batch of dye now that's going to be coffee and reduced beet juice. It will either make an interesting color or a gawdawful breakfast drink! LOL

[Cliff Fendley]

LOL, let us know how that turns out.

[bedbugbilly]

Let us know how it works out - sounds like an interesting comination and you know, I have a feeling that it just might turn out pretty good.  We'll be anxious to hear.  If it doesn't, maybe you could market it for one of those new "energy" drinks!   

I started a pint jar of vinegar with some copper pennies in it today - I know, I know - it's illegal to use money that way - but what the hey - the dollar isn't worth much anyways!  Money has a way of disappearing pretty fast anyway so maybe the pennies will as well?  At any rate, I'll keep you posted on what the concoction does and what the color, if any, is when applied to leather.

[Drayton Calhoun]

Let us know how it works out - sounds like an interesting comination and you know, I have a feeling that it just might turn out pretty good.  We'll be anxious to hear.  If it doesn't, maybe you could market it for one of those new "energy" drinks!   

I started a pint jar of vinegar with some copper pennies in it today - I know, I know - it's illegal to use money that way - but what the hey - the dollar isn't worth much anyways!  Money has a way of disappearing pretty fast anyway so maybe the pennies will as well?  At any rate, I'll keep you posted on what the concoction does and what the color, if any, is when applied to leather.

Hope they were older pennies, remember, back in the mid-eighties they went to copper plated zinc I believe.

[bedbugbilly]

Drayton - ahhhhh . . . duh!     You know, soon after I started the concoction, my lovely wife reminded me that pennies were not 100% copper any more.  I had completely forgotten about that!  God bless her - she's a retired science teacher - I slept through science classes.     Soooooooo . . . . I left them in but added some copper cuttings from copper rivets that I'd accumulated.  As soon as my neighbor gets back from Texas, I'll hit him up for some copper wire cuttings (he's an electrician) and add them to the brew as well.  Somehow, with my total lack of science ability, I will probably botch this little experiment up and end up with "scrap" - or else someone will turn me in for making "white lightening". 

Thaks for that reminder Draton - I greatly appreciate it.  It provided a good laugh at myself which we all need once in a while!   

[Drayton Calhoun]

Welllllll, the coffee dye came out pretty good, gives a nice medium buckskin color, the beet juice didn't seem to make any difference, probably not enough. Started out with a gallon and a half of coffee and wound up with less than a quart of dye, threw in a few ounces of alcohol to keep it from becoming a biology experiment. This concoction has been found to cause hyperactivity in California lab rats too...

[Chuck 100 yd]

My boss , just today, told me he was trying to color some pasta using beet juice.
He said it colored his hands and everything it touched but wouldn't change or even tint the pasta.
Maybe there is some kind of chemical block going on there??
I am going to try some concentrated beet juice in some walnut die this weekend too. Post your results. I will too.

[Mogorilla]

Hey Chuck,
If your boss is using the beet juice to boil already prepared pasta, won't work.   You might get a tint, but that is it.  When you get multicoloured pasta, it is used in the making of it.  If you boss would use beet juice, tomato paste, chopped spinach when making fresh pasta it will work, he can dry his own at that point.     may have to look into beet juice and walnut, just to see.  OR, I could wait and see how you guys do.   

[Drayton Calhoun]

A guy I work with has several black walnut trees on his property and brought me in a few green nuts, they sat in the garage until they dried out, but should still be fine. Gonna try my hand at walnut dye soon. The holster I dyed with the coffee dye should be finished this weekend. I did some stamping with the new stamps I made so, it is just a test bed for a lot of things. Had the hardest time remembering that all the impressions have to be inverted for it to look right! LOL

[Chuck 100 yd]

Mogorilla, After thinking about your reply, you are right, I bet after the pasta is cooked , like he did, it wont absorb any more of the beet color.
If he cooked the dried pasta in beet juice from the dried state it would have came out bright red.
Thanks for the info. 

[Drayton Calhoun]

Here's a few of the stamps I've made recently

[Drayton Calhoun]

Here's a holster I tried with the coffee dye. I actually made a tint with some walnut dye, short prep, some of the new stamps I made. The loop is a concoction of Tandy antique leather stain I mixed up years ago and forgot the mix. This is my first time attaching a loop like this, so, I need to work a little on it! It hasn't been fitted, oiled or finished yet because I wanted to show how the dye came out.

[Cliff Fendley]

Nice job on it, sometimes those loops can be a little tricky when first doing a pattern like that. That the way they are on the early Jockstrap style holsters I do. Looks like you got it fitting really good.

[Drayton Calhoun]

Thanks, Cliff! The burrs are quite a bit longer than I needed so I had to grind them down. I still have to fit and finish it.