Cocking problem.... ;-)

[Paladin UK]

Ho pards . need a bit of help here!! got me a...cocking problem!!

On my Pietta 1851 I just cannot seem to sort out the bolt timing. First click half cock second click bolt rises third click full cock forth cliick bolt engaging in the cylider!!

My  Westerners Arms (Uberti) behaves correctly on all four clicks I have looked at the WA bolt shape etc, and have attacked 3 new bolts thus far trying to correct it!!

I managed to make the bolt rise slightly later but it is still no where near what it should be. Its rising at the start of the cut away groove for the bolt recess.  I put another hammer in (Just in case it was the cam being naughty) and it made NO difference whatsoever!! I tried a different bolt-trigger leave spring and again NO change!! 

So as of now I`m at a complete loss as to WHY I cant seem to correct the timing of the bolt rise.

Any help here would be much appreciated.

Paladin (Whats reel stumped just now  ) UK

[Professor Marvel]

Ah My Dear Puk -

With all of your trials, You have neglected the hand ! I find that when trying to adress timing issues the two pieces I molest tweak the most are the hand and the bolt.

You have stated that you wish the bolt to rise "later" ...

If one looks at the problem from a different perspective one can also say you want the cylinder to advance further before the bolt is released. In order to do that one may want to lengthen the hand a tish (technical unit of measure) and one can further modify the timing of the cylinder by madifying the shape of the hand's tip.

hope this helps
yhs
prof marvel

[Paladin UK]

My gratious.. Prof. Marvel......

One must confess, one had thought of this but one thought it might lead to..`over rotation`, that being said, one will now... `give it a try` as one feels one has nothing to loose by employing said method 

Paladin (Whats gonna..give it a whirl  ) UK

[Coffinmaker]

PUK,

First your looking for the wrong thing.  An 1851 shouldn't have 4 "clicks."  Only three.  There is no "Safety Notch" (1st click), only a half cock (second click), full cock (third click) and bolt rise (fourth click).  So ...... the pattern should be half cock (1), Full cock (2) and Bolt (3).  You don't want the bolt rising later.  You want it to rise in the approach which is actually earlier.  If you want the bolt to rise earlier, you must remove material from the Bolt arm that engages the hammer cam (a little goes a long way).
I like timing where the leading edge of the bolt rises to the rear of the cylinder notch or a schooch (tech measurement) prior to the notch.
If you get 4 clicks, there is something really wrong ........ or UK guns are REALLY different!!

Coffinmaker

[Coffinmaker]

PUK,

I almost forgot, if you have a really serious "cocking" problem, shoot the sucker with a 12 gage and cook him up.


Coffinmaker
(What likes chicken and roasties)

[Paladin UK]

Fer CM...
Duh!!! No, Dbl. DUH!!! I am calling the 4th `click` the sound of the bolt slipping into the cylinder recess!! 

Soooo..
My my 1851 is doing the following...
1st `click` half cock 2nd `click` full cock, third `click` bolt rising ... Which means I need a delay on the bolt rising.

Secondly, regardin my `other cocking problem`  took yer advise and had at him with 5+1 rds from my 16g #97 Musta done the trick `cos all I seem to be able to find is a load of feathers

Paladin (What `preciates yer help  ) UK

[Paladin UK]

Well pards, I finally managed to get the timing right!!

The 4th bolt is the one that works!!

I had reel problems trying to delay the bolt I had to reshape the bolt to give it more time on the cam thus delaying its drop! I have been on with it for ages BUT it now works boootiful!! I have since made another, (Just `cos I wanted to make a spare that fitted),  total time including hardening just an hour!!

Thanks again for your help/guidance

Paladin (Whats a happy Cowboy  ) UK

[wildman1]

Happy B'Day PUK  WM

[Steel Horse Bailey]

More clicks than normal ... P.U.K., your '51 has 4 clicks, my AWA Longhorn (as you no doubt have figured out is NOT a C&B piece) has five (5) clicks.  I've never really tried to figger out why, because I'm a big fan of the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" school of thought, 'tho I've had it open perhaps a hunnert times and done my own action job and trigger smoothing/lightening.  Successfully, I might add.

The final click pushes rotates the cylinder its' final 1/4" inch or so, to when it locks up completely.  The very first "klik" is the odd one.  It is very faint and sounds less like a klik, but more ... uh ... pithy sounding.  NOt a fine, precise "klik!" at all.  Kinda like this ... klithk.


This has been happening since day 1, so it's not something I did!  LoL!


By the way, I'm one of what may be a small crowd who uses the wire trigger/bolt spring (on 3 of my Colt's or repros) and is thoroughly please with the results!  I wish I could find a wire spring for my (Uberti) Remington pistols as well as my 2nd Gen. Colt's Dragoon, 1st model.  It worries me because some folks on here who I really respect and heed their recommendations have stated numerous times here to NOT use the wire springs          ...         rather, stay away from them.

Diff'rent strokes, I guess.

Since the last posting regarding this issue of my pard, Paladin U.K. was back in August when he posted the successful resolution to his timing problem (aside from WM's Birthday wish) and it's now the 9th of November, this may simply be hot air.  Hope all is well, pards!