First trip to range with Armi Sharps 45-70

[cpt dan blodgett]

Funny you should mention Lewis lead remover.  Last year at winter range, the rangers were offered up some excess door prize items.  I walked out with a Brand new shiney in the scrink wrap Lewis Lead Remover in 45 cal from Brownells.  Just looked down at the box.

[Ranch 13]

You don't need sunshine to know whether or not the patch soaked with tuprentine comes out the far end of the barrel with strips/hunks of lead stuck to it.

[john boy]

Plug the bore with a rubber stopper.  Heat the turps up on a double boiler.  Pour it in and let it sit overnight.  Really losses the lead that will come out on a tight patch

[cpt dan blodgett]

Really worked the bore hard with turpentine patches that I ended up having to use my little lyman brass/nylon hammer and beat thru the bore numerous times.  Produced vitually nothing very few tiny flecks vs flakes or chunks.  Even worked the bore a while with Shooters Choice lead remover and a bronze wool wrapped brush then several more turpentine trips again virtually nothing, so I am thinking leading is not the problem.

[Ranch 13]

If you pulled flecks or flakes you had leading...

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Isn't Shooters' Choice meant for copper fouling?

[Mako]

Isn't Shooters' Choice meant for copper fouling?

Sir Charles,
There is a version specifically for lead fouling.

http://www.midwayusa.com/Product/398676/shooters-choice-lead-remover-bore-cleaning-solvent-4-oz-liquid

Regards,
Mako

[cpt dan blodgett]

Have generally always used sweets for copper.  Left over from my high power days.  As MAKO indicated they have a product for each.
Rumor has it good old Hoppe's 9 will work on lead pretty well too if you leave it in the bore for a week or so.

I have actually had worse leading from shooting hard cast bullets from my pistols and rifles than I have had with softer bullets.
Think it has to do with the combination of being flat based (gasses deflect around the bevel) and being softer they obderate better and faster essentally sealing hot gases behind bullet vs a lot of gas getting past the hardcast melting sides and fouling the bore.

I am sure some one out there can provide formulas and tempuratures gas jet velocities and 1000 other things to scientifically either confirm or refute my anecdotal evidence.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Isn't it something about crystaline structure, or sumpin', that makes hard cast bullets shed more lead

[Mako]

Isn't it something about crystaline structure, or sumpin', that makes hard cast bullets shed more lead

Sir Charles,
I think it has more to do with bullet obturation at the base until you reach velocities above 1,800 fps.  At that point you start scrubbing off the softer lead.  If the base doesn't fully obturate you get some gas erosion if it is a flat base and that leaves some lead.  Pure lead only needs 8,750 psi of pressure to obturate the base.  Wheel weight alloy needs about  13,000 psi and 1:20 alloy needs 17,000 psi.  That is all until you reach the higher velocity and then it's not the gas erosion that is your problem.

~Mako

[cpt dan blodgett]

Have ordered Saeco 645 and 881 Bullets in .459 from Montana Bullet works.  Have also ordered some of the Desparado 415 grainers in .460.  We shall see if they will do better than what I have been trying.

[cpt dan blodgett]

tested 10 rounds each of the .460 Desparados, and both of the SAECOs 480 semi pointed and 500 rn from each of the rifles.

Desparados have hard blue lube so i stuck a .062 veggie wad one either side of a lube cookie and 60 grains of FFg Schuetzen.  About all that will fit in the case with the rather thick lube cookie.  Could keep on paper at 200 even out of either rifle but nothing to write home about kinda rat droppings in a dresser drawer vs a group.

With the 480 semi pointed 1 .062 wad and 70 grains FFg(same wad and charge for 500 RN) the sharps was holding good on elevation damn near straight line at on hundred with the 480 grainers, but was about 8 inches wide for the first three shots.
Next couple were about 4 low one on line with point of aim another about 4 inches left.  My eyes really dont see the sights well.
Can see ok with the ladder sight up and slider out of way using just the notch.  The wider V lets me find the front sight better.

Tried one round using the lyman tang at lowest setting taking a 6 oclock hold on standard military 100 yd bull, I hit the target frame on top.  Was able to actaully hit paper at 200 using the tang sight.  Sure makes seeing the front sigh easier.  At 200 I eventually learned I could keep them on the target using the tang sight but took a while to determine where I was hitting.  Sorta thought I would be way high but ended up I was really kinda close to point of aim.  Initially took a 6 oclock frame hold as I figured I would be high at 200.  Dropped first round under target, but close enough I could not really tell it was under it.
Next couple actually hit paper but far apart.  Now that I can actually put lead on target feel more comfortable that I may get some decent loads going.  Will stick to 100 next time out and see what 68 and 72 grains shoot like with same wad.  I need to figure out how far out I can go with the new bullets and still chamber the rounds easily.  Think I will try the Desparados with some smokeless the 45 grain original test maybe 1/2 grain more and 1/2 grain less than original with the .458 bullets. 

Shooting the Rolling block shot OK at 100 with the desparados would put 2 round about an inch apart, the next 2 about 4 inches away and about 4 inches a part.  I could hit paper at 200 but that is about it.  Shot about same with the 480.  Did not shoot any of the 500 grainers at 100 with RB.  Did shoot them at 200 and put 8 of 10 in the black of a standard 200 meter bull.    The 480 grainers were also on paper but kinda all over the place.

Guess the smart money says to only make 1 change at a time.

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Guess the smart money says to only make 1 change at a time.

Truer words were never spoken!

This was a problem I ran into.  Many folks would give me helpful suggestions, but I  could never get the hang of doing one thing at a time.  I guess I have a problem with details and lack patience.  I also had NO place to go often enough to make meaningful tests PLUS the one place I had easy access to has only 100 yd. capability.  Not the best way to test ANY rifle, let alone BP.  But I sure enjoy trying new things and shooting my Sharps!  SOME day, I'll find the right combo.





I hope.

[cpt dan blodgett]

The lyman number 2 with winchester base does not really fit.  The screws end up being in contact with the front edge of the front screw hole and the back one with the back edge of that screw hole.  It does lock down pretty steadily.  Called lyman and they do not offer any different bases.  Eventually this sight will go on a 94 win 32 special and a sight from MVA will grace the Armi Sport.  By the time I get front and rear sights, the sights will be worth more than the rifle.

I only have to drive 24 miles to the range, but it is kinda a pain.  Have seriously considered buying the 310 tool so I can load on the bench at the range

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

I only have to drive 24 miles to the range, but it is kinda a pain.  Have seriously considered buying the 310 tool so I can load on the bench at the range

Get the LEE Hand Press.  You can still use regular dies.  The new ones have an improved quick change die seat

[cpt dan blodgett]

No doubt a lot less expensive too boot.  Thanks for the tip