Why no SS '51 or '60 Repos?

[Dick Dastardly]

My dear black powder shooter friends,

Not all stainless steel is created equal.  Just as there are differing grades of steel, so are there different grades and qualities of stainless steel.

As to manufacturing with SS.  Modern machining tools and equipment do VERY well with SS.  There is a difference in technique and tools, but don't let anybody tell you that machining stainless is harder than traditional steel.  It's simply different, not more difficult.

As to why not more SS guns are offered for sale, the market hasn't demanded them.  When it does,  they will become available.

Just remember, not all stainless steel is equal.

Now, as to corroding. . . . . .  Black powder got a bad rap many years ago when Winchester came out with their "Staynless" primers.  Winchester offered only factory loaded smokeless ammo with the new non corrosive primers.  The primers used with black powder were still corrosive.  It was a quite a while before the non corrosive primers became available to hand loaders.  By that time, the damage had been done.  Black powder was seen as corrosive and smokeless was not.  If you think corrosive primers don't make a difference, buy some of the corrosive surplus Berdain primed ammo that's out there.  Shoot it and don't clean your gun.  You will soon learn that the primers are the source of corrosion, not the powder.

DD

[Claypipe]

For the first piece, it appears to be an all original presentation cased gun, exception being the cap tin, which looks to be a reproduction. Let me point out the speckling towards the rear of the cylinder, the hammer, the trigger area and in the grip area of the gun. Without close inspect, I suspect that this gun was unfired and the speckling is the result of it being handled by bare hands and not wiped clean prior to returning it to its case. Further evidence of this gun having seen little, to no use, is its wooden grips. Notice the shiny finish, the only wear being where they come in contact with the case itself, the dark edges at the butt of the grips. This shows how frail early nickel plating was at this date. Despite these defects, this gun would be classified as being in fine condition.

Now, this gun shows obvious signs of use. Though hard to see, again, there is speckling on the hammer, trigger area and in the grip area of the gun. Also, there is wear at the muzzle. Towards the rear of the cylinder, the nickel finish has been eaten away by the residue from the caps discharging. Another example of the inferior quality of nickel plating prior to 1869. This gun would be classified as being in excellent condition.

I found it interesting that this was included in the auction description:

This a very rare Colt to find in original nickel with extra fancy walnut grips.

What a lovely pair here. What you might construe as speckling on these fine guns, is probably no more than spots of tarnish. With their silver finish, and what appears to be ivory grips, this definitely was a presentation set. Seeing little if any use.

Further you mention pinfire revolvers. Many of these are found in excellent condition. I would credited that to lack of use due to poor supply of ammunition.

CP

[Mako]

Pettifogger,

I sent you a PM with the particulars from Jerry about your Root.

I'm sort of laughing because I thought I talked a lot about a subject I knew...He talked my ear off for almost an hour.  I learned more than I ever wanted to know about the Root Colt's pistols.

According to him It seems the nickel on the 1855s is not even as rare as I thought, they were not uncommon and according to him they subcontracted them as part of the production process at a shop set up just outside of the factory complex, they also sent work to what was considered the best plating house in the nation for their presentation grade work.

The nickel plating was more size driven at the time (1850s) because of the power supplies and their still limited understanding of the anode size and shapes necessary and attachment point on the object to be plated to get the uniform dog bone free plating.  The plating quality from what I have observed and read is about the same as current plating, the base substrate flash has evolved over time, but the nickel alloy is surprisingly the same.  Most people don't realize Nickel plating is still actually porous, Electroless nickel is actually less porous. You will see rust specks and flaked plating on the finest S&W or Colt's 20th century revolver ever made and they shoot smokeless powder without rust causing primers to boot.  

I think your pistol as well as the others I have seen are remarkable in their finish.  They are very nice and most people also don't realize that the finish you start with on the steel will be magnified on the mirrored surface of the finish.  It's not like paint or a wood finish you can sand to get rid of imperfections.  I have a feeling they chose the best of the lot to send to plating.  Yours' sure looks crisp and clean.

It seems Jerry bought his current prize, sold it and then bought it back few years later because of the quality of the plating and it doesn't even have a case. I didn't know it until today, but He has two more that are plated as well.

He mentioned that Colt was supposed to have known the plater they subcontracted to from the period when he was between the Paterson and U.S. Model of 1847 pistols and he was even dabbling in chemistry and other things.  That's something I would like to see documented. I think that is entirely plausible because S. Colt vertically integrated almost everything and for him to subcontract that meant he probably already had a relationship with the proprietor.

~Mako

[Pettifogger]

Lots of good information.  Thanks for taking the time to investigate and post.

[Mako]

Pettifogger,

Glad to help.

I think it's important the information posted on here is kept as accurate as possible, after all we're supposed to be the experts on this stuff. 

See how it even had you wondering?  Once it gets written online it is pretty much enshrined forever and keeps popping up for years to come when people search for answers.

~Mako

[Jamie]

Just saw this thread and figured I'd add my 2cents worth.  At a store in Victor NY, (Pro-gun Services, 7387 State Route 96, Victor NY  585-924-1733) They have a brand new Euroarms 1860 Army copy in Stainless Steel available for the sum of $299.99 (as of yesterday), marked down from over $400 if I remember correctly.  The gun has been there for years.  Pretty decent guys, one employee at least shoots cowboy action, and since its BP, it should be mailable even from the empire state of New York.  I've never handled it, but looked at it again yesterday.  Tax is 8% here, plus shipping, so...
Jamie