Period Designs

[Rich]

What shapes, designs, etc. are correct to the period for CAS?

[Major 2]

Good read is Packing Iron By Richard Rattenbury darn close to Bible of Period leather work.

Photos & Text will take you there 

[Slowhand Bob]

Rich, the speed with which gun leather changed actually matched the speed of handgun development over the last half of the 1800s.  Kinda imagine the evolution of the full Flapped Slim Jim through the more civilian version without a flap.  This evolved into the first Mexican Loop styles as cartridges became popular.  I really kinda think that from here the designs seemed to follow a trend of regional preferences and gun shape evolutions.  It would seem to me that what we call Cheyenne or say Texas Jock Strap, are all just later style of Mexican Loops.  Looking in Packing Iron reveals to me that the early Mexican Loops acually looked much like the Slim Jims of the day with the addition of a skirt.  In some ways the holster was actually following the evolution of belts as much as the pistols.  In the end, the one one holster that saw pretty much all of the action from the Civil War era till the turn of the century was the California Slim Jim and there are a couple of recent posts that show some of the prettiest examples of Slim Jims that I have ever seen.

Kinda a last thought on seeing some good examples without buying the book or even going to the library, check out the web sites for Wild Rose Leather and Will Ghormley Leather as these guys seem to specialize in what was there during that time period.

[JD Alan]

I think it depends on what era you are trying to portray. Each time period has it's own holsters, though they do seem to overlap. It even depends on the part of the country you were from, not just the time period.

Then there's the movie and TV cowboys, a perfectly legit way to go. So many choices, so much leather!

Like Major 2 said, Packing Iron is a great book to have, even if you aren't a leather worker. Just being interested in the old west is reason enough to get the book.   

[Irish Dave]

Couple of thoughts:

Just like today, even though a newer style comes along, there were still plenty of folks making/selling the older patterns throughout the period. Good advice above on keeping your time frame in mind when selecting a style. The only thing you don't want to do is to put a later style into a an earlier time period, but there really is no problem portraying a later period and still using an older, earlier style. For example, despite the many advances in firearms of the late 1800s, cap'n'ball revolvers were still in fairly common usage in the West well past the advent of cartridge arms. Same was, I have no doubt, true of leather gear.

Another thing I've noticed is that I think the major factory leather producers of the 1950s thru today have inaccurately shaped public opinion into believing that only stiff, heavy 11-13 oz holsters etc. should be considered "high quality." This is a fallacy that I suspect began with the heavy (even steel lined) rigs of the mid-20th Century "fast draw competition" period. Truth is, if you've spent much time viewing original leather from the Old West period, it seems pretty obvious to me that thinner, rather than thicker, was the norm of the day.

With a few notable exceptions, the majority of the period belt holsters I've examined are much closer to a 7-9 oz thickness range, with some holsters -- designed for concealment-- even running into what I'd guess is the 5-6 oz weight range.

Not sure what that's worth, but  just something to think about I guess. In my very humble opinion, if a person is seriously trying to recreate leather gear of the late 19th Century, along with the proper pattern/style, it may be worth keeping in mind that the harness-weight rigs of today are by-and-large a modern creation and not the common practice of the period.

[Cliff Fendley]

Dave is very correct on leather weights of original holsters. Most I have had the pleasure to examine are more like 7 oz average and unlined. Plus they are not very stiff at all, in order to duplicate one today you would need some light skirting or bridle leather that has some give to it.

I normally make them from single layer Wicket and Craig carving leather 8-9 oz. This way it has the same look as an original but stiffer so it holds it's shape and works well for action shooting.

[Irish Dave]

Just so no one misunderstands, I'm all for folks making 5-lb., last-1000-years holsters if that's what they want to do or what they like. It's just good to know that that isn't necessary to qualify as "good leather" nor that it is typical of the Old west

Cliff:

It's always been my suspicion that the lighter weight period belt holsters (even in the 7-8 oz arena) were logically probably much stiffer when new than they are today after 100-plus years of wear, use, abuse, exposure, general squashing and neglect.

Heck, I've seen new holsters from several good makers turn fairly squishy after only 15-20 years of hard use. Easy to see how the 100-year-old stuff is pretty soft by now.

Your thoughts on that?

[Cliff Fendley]

I've thought about that Dave and would say it was just as today many were soft and supple where others were more stiff. I've seen some very old saddles, saddle bags and other higher ticket items of the 19th century still in very good and firm condition. I guess what I mean is of the old leather stuff I own and have studied it seems most of the old gun holsters seem to be a little more on the soft side then say saddles and other higher ticket items of the day.

I just can't help to think that back in the day a saddler didn't take a whole new side and cut gun leather out of the best part of the side as we would today. Today more holsters and gun leather are made than saddles and such but that was not the case in the 19th century. I'd bet a lot of the plain jane every day holsters were made from belly leather and other lesser quality cuts while the saddles, belts, and other gear were taken from the best parts of the hide.

Notice I said most of the old ones I'm not saying some gun rigs were not made from the best cuts of leather I'm just saying I'd bet a lot of the left over smaller pieces from saddles and other gear were used for holsters and other small pouches and accessories.

That's just my thoughts since I don't believe fast draw and holstering was an issue to most and many folks just needed a way of carrying there side arm.

I'm curious to hear others thoughts on this. Today many of us buy backs and bends or wind up throwing a lot of the belly leather away because it is too soft but I'd bet in the day a lot of it was used for many accessories.

[outrider]

First off...welcome back Dave...where have you been hiding?

With that said I agree with what both you and Cliff have said.  Most of the 19th century holsters that I have seen were made of lighter material...and as Cliff said...holsters were made to not only carry.. but to protect the sidearm...hence the deep pockets and high throats we see ...paricularly on "slim jim" holsters....as opposed to the skeletonized and steel lined speed rigs we see today.

[Dalton Masterson]

I agree as well. The holster was made to keep from dropping the gun and to keep it handy. Reholstering was not the issue it is today. They could use both hands, look down, and get the barrel into leather.

I would guess that most of the vintage stuff I have handled, was of the 7-8 oz variety as well.
I think you are probably right about the belly leather, Cliff. Waste not, want not. Use up the scraps from making bags, saddles, harnesses, etc.
I imagine that holsters were not the biggest seller for average leather makers. I wonder what percentage of sales they were?

How easy was it to get a side of leather in the west? Was it made local, or shipped out from back East? If they were conserving the leather that they had to make saddles/heavy duty gear, then I am sure that holsters were of the secondary/belly type leathers as they just werent as important to make than the daily use type things. And not everyone needed a holster.
DM

[Trailrider]

The majority of civilian holsters, especially the slim jim styles, that I've encountered measured out at 6-7 oz.  Granting that they were probably stiffer when new, they were still fairly flimsy compared to today's.  U.S. military holsters were generally 8-9 oz in thickness in the bodies with 7-8 flaps and belt loops.  The stoutest Old West rigs I've seen were made by H.H. Heiser, F.A. Meanea and Fraiser.  These tend to run at least 8-9 oz. in thickness or even a bit heavier.  Linings were not that common, though I've run into some even on the earlier slim jim styles. One of these consisted of a thin (2-3 oz) red leather that was stitched on the outside of the top of the holster body, then rolled over the top and down the inside of the body.  This holster is replicated in my "Utah Scout" model, which was featured in several of Dennis Adler's beautiful books on Old West guns.

[DUKE DEADEYE NUKEM]

Myself period correct is real nice and I relish it. My rigs past, present and future are working rigs for hunting and what not and the CAS thing is secondary. So if it's heavier I'm game.