Loose Barrel on Uberti 1875 Remington

[The Swede]

I was cleaning my Uberti 1875 Remington revolver yesterday, and I noticed that the barrel was loose. I had taken her completely apart for a thorough cleaning, the barrel seemed loose. I  thoroughly unscrewed it, and cleaned it. oiled and put her back together.
Did any of you ever have this happen?

Swede

[Pettifogger]

The barrel is not supposed to unscrew!  It is supposed to be installed with a fair amount of torque.  If it is still under warranty you should send it back.  If it is old and everything else seems OK, clean and thoroughly degrease the barrel and frame threads and put some red loctite on it.  The ideal fix would be to turn the barrel shoulder back on a lathe, torque it to proper specs and then cut the back of the barrel for the proper cylinder gap and recut the forcing cone.  Again, if everything is otherwise OK red loctite will do a nice job of securing the barrel.

[Icebox Bob]

I have a 1875 Remmie with the same issue.  It is not new - I am at least the third owner.  When I removed the barrel, there was a lot of some sort of dark adhesive - not Loctite - that had been used to secure the barrel.  I thoroughly cleaned the threads, primarily to be sure there wasn't any damage and there wasn't.  When I screwed the barrel back in tight, it goes a very small smidgeon too far.  The front sight is just barely noticeably past vertical.

I'm inclined to try the Loctite solution first and watch closely for any sign of looseness.  I'm guessing that eventually I will have to have it machined.

Just to let you know you aren't alone with this problem.

[The Swede]

The barrel is not supposed to unscrew!  It is supposed to be installed with a fair amount of torque.  If it is still under warranty you should send it back.  If it is old and everything else seems OK, clean and thoroughly degrease the barrel and frame threads and put some red loctite on it.  The ideal fix would be to turn the barrel shoulder back on a lathe, torque it to proper specs and then cut the back of the barrel for the proper cylinder gap and recut the forcing cone.  Again, if everything is otherwise OK red loctite will do a nice job of securing the barrel.

I didn't think it should. I will try what you suggest... the red loctite. I will check the cylinder gap. If it does not solve the problem I'll send it to a very competent gunsmith I know. Warranty is over unfortunately...

Swede

[The Swede]

I have a 1875 Remmie with the same issue.  It is not new - I am at least the third owner.  When I removed the barrel, there was a lot of some sort of dark adhesive - not Loctite - that had been used to secure the barrel.  I thoroughly cleaned the threads, primarily to be sure there wasn't any damage and there wasn't.  When I screwed the barrel back in tight, it goes a very small smidgeon too far.  The front sight is just barely noticeably past vertical.

I'm inclined to try the Loctite solution first and watch closely for any sign of looseness.  I'm guessing that eventually I will have to have it machined.

Just to let you know you aren't alone with this problem.

Thanks! I appreciate it. I'm not to worried... that's why we have backups!

Swede

[Professor Marvel]

Ah My Dear Swede -

One very temporary fix to a "short shoulder" has been to peen the shoulder of the barrel, making only a thin ring of metal that engages the frame,  instead of the full shoulder. This is a "quick fix" with hand tools that does not require mounting it on a lathe, turning back the shoulder the proper amount, and shortening, refacing and recutting the forcing cone (the correct repair as noted by our good Pettifogger)

This can and will "peen back flat" after some time shooting, resulting in a loose barrel once again - which may explain your dilemma - that poor fix may have actually occurred at the factory, originally producing what feels and looks like a tight fitting barrel.

I have successfully fixed similar loose barrels on "ordinary" low-pressure calibers such .38 or .45 Colt by fitting a very thin washer or shim , thus simulating "moving the entire shoulder forward"; one time the required shim was so thin (ie less than  1/8 of a barrel turn) that I resorted to a shim ring of lead and used a crush fit.

Another fix, oddly, came about as a brain drizzle, reading of old-timers who took up the slack with "white lead" on the barrel threads - instead I tried  wrapping the barrel threads with  teflon tape. The teflon tape fix has held up nicely through several hundred rounds of "modern" .38 special. Both are less gooey than red locktite but all three "shade tree" methods (shim, teflon tape, red locktite)  work well.

Swede - I have noticed the dark goo on Italian Remington C&B barrel threads - it definitely requires heating to free it.

hope this helps -
yhs
prof marvel

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

Original Colts had tapered barrel threads. Similar to pipe threads. The fit got tighter and tighter as the barrel was screwed in. The taper was calculated so that when the barrel shoulder snugged up to the frame, the threads were very tight and would not back out. This was true with 1st Gen Colts, and I believe 2nd Gen Colts. Not sure about 3rd Gen.

As a rule, most of the modern Italian made reproductions do not have tapered threads. Some sort of thread locker is applied to the threads to keep the barrel from backing out. However, the barrel shoulder must snug up to the frame, or else to a spacer as Professor Marvel mentions for the thread locker to operate properly. If the barrel is not snugged up, the thread locking stuff may eventually allow the barrel to unscrew.

With the tapered threads of a Colt, the barrel could be backed out slightly to straighten the front sight, and the tapered threads would still be gripping the barrel tight enough so that it did not unscrew. This becomes problematic with the imports. If the barrel shoulder is no longer butted up against the frame, the threads are not locked in place.

There is a technique for using lead foil to lock the threads in place. The point is with straight threads, unless the barrel is screwed in all the way to the frame, the the threads are not properly shoved together at one face of the threads. There is space, and you do not want that. The lead foil technique will keep the barrel properly centered in the frame.

I ain't at home right now, but Kuhnhausen mentions this. I will look it up when I get home.

[Pettifogger]

Howdy

Original Colts had tapered barrel threads. Similar to pipe threads. The fit got tighter and tighter as the barrel was screwed in. The taper was calculated so that when the barrel shoulder snugged up to the frame, the threads were very tight and would not back out. This was true with 1st Gen Colts, and I believe 2nd Gen Colts. Not sure about 3rd Gen.

As a rule, most of the modern Italian made reproductions do not have tapered threads. Some sort of thread locker is applied to the threads to keep the barrel from backing out. However, the barrel shoulder must snug up to the frame, or else to a spacer as Professor Marvel mentions for the thread locker to operate properly. If the barrel is not snugged up, the thread locking stuff may eventually allow the barrel to unscrew.

With the tapered threads of a Colt, the barrel could be backed out slightly to straighten the front sight, and the tapered threads would still be gripping the barrel tight enough so that it did not unscrew. This becomes problematic with the imports. If the barrel shoulder is no longer butted up against the frame, the threads are not locked in place.

There is a technique for using lead foil to lock the threads in place. The point is with straight threads, unless the barrel is screwed in all the way to the frame, the the threads are not properly shoved together at one face of the threads. There is space, and you do not want that. The lead foil technique will keep the barrel properly centered in the frame.

I ain't at home right now, but Kuhnhausen mentions this. I will look it up when I get home.

So who is talking about original Colts?  This thread is about reproduction Remingtons and they darn sure don't have tapered threads.

[Rolling Stone]

Petit fogger,

The gentleman was giving us information that was germane to the conversation. If you would take a breath and reconsider I think almost everyone but you was happy with the way it was presented. Anyway I think you could be a little more lenient in your enforcing your sensibilities on what is not your thread anyway.
Thanks for the soap box
Rolling Stone

[The Swede]

Ah My Dear Swede -

One very temporary fix to a "short shoulder" has been to peen the shoulder of the barrel, making only a thin ring of metal that engages the frame,  instead of the full shoulder. This is a "quick fix" with hand tools that does not require mounting it on a lathe, turning back the shoulder the proper amount, and shortening, refacing and recutting the forcing cone (the correct repair as noted by our good Pettifogger)

This can and will "peen back flat" after some time shooting, resulting in a loose barrel once again - which may explain your dilemma - that poor fix may have actually occurred at the factory, originally producing what feels and looks like a tight fitting barrel.

I have successfully fixed similar loose barrels on "ordinary" low-pressure calibers such .38 or .45 Colt by fitting a very thin washer or shim , thus simulating "moving the entire shoulder forward"; one time the required shim was so thin (ie less than  1/8 of a barrel turn) that I resorted to a shim ring of lead and used a crush fit.

Another fix, oddly, came about as a brain drizzle, reading of old-timers who took up the slack with "white lead" on the barrel threads - instead I tried  wrapping the barrel threads with  teflon tape. The teflon tape fix has held up nicely through several hundred rounds of "modern" .38 special. Both are less gooey than red locktite but all three "shade tree" methods (shim, teflon tape, red locktite)  work well.

Swede - I have noticed the dark goo on Italian Remington C&B barrel threads - it definitely requires heating to free it.

hope this helps -
yhs
prof marvel

Very interesting Professor. Thanks for the info.

Swede

[The Swede]

Howdy

Original Colts had tapered barrel threads. Similar to pipe threads. The fit got tighter and tighter as the barrel was screwed in. The taper was calculated so that when the barrel shoulder snugged up to the frame, the threads were very tight and would not back out. This was true with 1st Gen Colts, and I believe 2nd Gen Colts. Not sure about 3rd Gen.

As a rule, most of the modern Italian made reproductions do not have tapered threads. Some sort of thread locker is applied to the threads to keep the barrel from backing out. However, the barrel shoulder must snug up to the frame, or else to a spacer as Professor Marvel mentions for the thread locker to operate properly. If the barrel is not snugged up, the thread locking stuff may eventually allow the barrel to unscrew.

With the tapered threads of a Colt, the barrel could be backed out slightly to straighten the front sight, and the tapered threads would still be gripping the barrel tight enough so that it did not unscrew. This becomes problematic with the imports. If the barrel shoulder is no longer butted up against the frame, the threads are not locked in place.

There is a technique for using lead foil to lock the threads in place. The point is with straight threads, unless the barrel is screwed in all the way to the frame, the the threads are not properly shoved together at one face of the threads. There is space, and you do not want that. The lead foil technique will keep the barrel properly centered in the frame.

I ain't at home right now, but Kuhnhausen mentions this. I will look it up when I get home.

While this isn't a Colt I do appreciate the time, and information you have provided. I will look at this revolver more closely, and see what I am able to do. If it in any way seems like it is more than I can handle off to the gunsmith she goes. Safety is my first concern...

Thank you!

Swede

[Fox Creek Kid]

Swede, just an FYI that I would HIGHLY recommend giving some of YOUR loads to him that you use to have him regulate the windage because once she's Loctited in............

[The Swede]

Swede, just an FYI that I would HIGHLY recommend giving some of YOUR loads to him that you use to have him regulate the windage because once she's Loctited in............

Good advice, I shoot BP. This particular revolver is very accurate with smokeless, or BP loads.  I have noticed with one of my Uberti Cattleman's that it shoots high, and to the right with Trail Boss(I have adjusted my loads according to factory load tables, and it seems to shoot that way with all smokeless loads), but dead on with BP...

[The Swede]

By the way... I appreciate ALL the good advice given here. It is always good to get help when one has a technical problem. This forum is an excellent resource!
I used to be involved in a couple of photography forums. I figured with my lifetime of experience (21 years as a pro) I could help a few folks with something that I love. I found that there were to many inexperienced KNOW IT ALLs, and it killed the experience for me. That is not the case here... Thank God!

Again, thank you very much!

Swede

[Icebox Bob]

Thanks for all the great info Driftwood!

I am hoping you can get back to us with more on the lead foil idea you mentioned.

[Flint]

I have a Navy Arms Remington I bought many years ago (15 or 20) with a loose barrel.  I locktited it in and it is still tight.

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

Sorry I did not get back sooner.

in Jerry Kuhnhausen's The Colt Single Action Revolvers, A Shop Manual, Volumes 1 & 2, he states that gunsmiths historically shimmed loose barrel threads with lead foil, lead wool, or even wax paper. Loose barrel thread fit can cause barrels to torque off center. He states that barrels should be selected for lowest clearance thread frame fit. Clearly, this advice is to gunsmiths who may have a selection of several barrels to choose from when rebarrelling a SAA.

The idea is that taking up the thread clearance this way centers the threads better, and causes the barrel shoulder to fit more concentrically, relative to the frame barrel threads. In other words, thread shimming takes up the loose space between the frame threads and the barrel threads. Without taking up the loose space, the barrel may not torque down completely concentric to the threads in the frame. So the bore may be off a tiny bit.

He suggests lead because it is dead soft and will conform to the threads. He suggests using lead foil .003-.004 thick. He says to make certain the ends of the foil do not overlap. He says that since lead foil may be difficult to locate today, lead foil from the top of a wine bottle can be used in a pinch. Aluminum foil can be used, but it is more likely to tear. The foil should be compressed into the threads. The metal foil can be lubricated with a one or two of even layers of teflon tape, again making sure it does not overlap.