.36 cal. Conical Bullets

[triple w]

Where can I get (25-50) .36 cal. conical bullets for my new 1851 London navy revolver? I am not set up to cast and I would like to try making some paper cartridges.

TW

[Gatofeo]

Dixie Gun Works offers a wide variety of conical bullets, many of them based on the original design for a particular revolver. It's offered in their catalog; don't know if they're available online. The $5 spent for a catalog is well worth the money.

I can't find my DGW catalog, or I'd give you an idea of price. I'm thinking it's about $8 per hundred.
The neat thing about the conicals that DGW offers is that they're duplicates of the original designs. The 1851 Navy had its own style, then that design was changed slightly for the 1861. And, of course, the smaller 1862 Colt had a shorter, lighter bullet.
The Remington designs differed from the Colt.

I've used the 1851 Navy conical bullets from DGW. My only complaint is that the bullet's base is not cut off with a sprue, but apparently with side-cutting pliers. This leaves a little "peak" on the bullet's base, not a flat base.
Countless studies have shown that the bullet's base, more than any other area, affects accuracy the greatest. Whether this matters at the short range of a cap and ball revolver, who knows?
If the nubbin on the bullet's base bothers you, a cheap file could take it off. I never bothered.

Gad Custom Cartridges offers a large variety of cast bullets for all kinds of obscure calibers. It lists the .38 Short Colt and .36 cap and ball as the same bullet.  The bullet is .375 diameter, with a .359 inch heel. Cost is $7 per hundred, which is very reasonable. You can buy up to 500 and save a little money in bulk.
In the website, it appears that these bullets have a flat base, created by a sprue cutter.
Check out Gad Custom Cartridges at http://gadcustomcartridges.com/

I've fired quite a few conical bullet designs since I started shooting cap and ball revolvers about 1970, and never found a conical as accurate as a properly oversized ball. However, for making paper cartridges, the conical bullet is pretty much dictated. For historical accuracy, it's required.
Remember, conical bullets occupy a lot more space in the chamber than a lead ball, so reduce your powder charge accordingly.

The February 1972 issue of the American Rifleman has an interesting article on original loads for cap and ball revolvers. The author cut open original paper cartridges and weighed the bullets and powder charges. No mention is made of Remington or other cap and ball revolver charges but they were likely identical or nearly so.
There was a great deal of variance of bullet weight and powder charge, from contractor to contractor.

Conical bullets for the Colt .36 Navy ranged from 139 to 155 grs. Charges ranged from 12 to 21 grains.
Nearly all of these variations are found in prepared, paper cartridges manufactured by private contractors. It appears that U.S. government arsenals made few paper revolver cartridges, preferring to contract this task. Interestingly, all such cartridges were hand-rolled, usually by women and children in the powder plants. It must have been tedious, dangerous work.

The author didn't mention powder granulation. It was probably FFG but may have been FFFG. Or it could have been somewhere between those two grades.

Here's what he found for the 1851 Navy, for example:

COLT NAVY .36
Hazard Powder Co. - 141 gr. conical / 21 grs. powder
Bartholow's - 139 gr. conical / 14 grs. powder
Johnston & Dow - 150 gr. conical / 17 grs. powder
Unknown - 155 gr. conical / 12 grs. powder
Unknown - 149 gr. conical / 13 grs. powder

Hope this helps.

[triple w]

Thanks Gatofeo. That covers everything I' looking for! 

[Pettifogger]

If your 51 is a Uberti don't be surprised if you can't seat a conical in it.  I have six Uberti .36s and have tried several different .36 conicals.  None would seat properly because the chambers have a slight taper to them.  You can also make paper cartridges with round balls.  Almost every dedicated C&B shooter tries making paper cartridges.  After loading about 50, pretty much everyone gives up.  Great idea for combat.  Large expenditure of time for no benefit for cowboy shooting.

[Mako]

If your 51 is a Uberti don't be surprised if you can't seat a conical in it.  I have six Uberti .36s and have tried several different .36 conicals.  None would seat properly because the chambers have a slight taper to them...

Pettifogger,
I'm not sure what this means, can you elaborate?

~Mako

[SGT John Chapman]

Pettifogger,....It all depends on how much you love shooting them,.......

http://www.theopenrange.net/forum/index.php?topic=326.0

[Professor Marvel]

Greetings my Dear Triple -

I see that dixie does have "buffalo bullets" at ~ $16 a box of fifty, it's pretty cheap.

http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_99_311_313&products_id=3629

I find that the Lee mold casts a nice .36 conical, but I am afraid I cannot relate any experience with them just haven't been able to free up any time to go shoot :-( .

(I have resorted to casting and shooting wax and hot-glue bullets in the yard to fill the gap for now)

yhs
prof marvel

[Oregon Bill]

Sarge: A tip o' the Stetson sir!

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Sarge: A tip o' the Stetson sir!

Bill, when Shane ... er, Sgt. Chapman does something, he doesn't skimp or half-step!  You should see some of his ammo boxes or ammo crates!  Museum quality!

[SGT John Chapman]

Thanks Bill,....and Thanks Mr Bailey!!....

[Steel Horse Bailey]

You're very welcome ... and I STILL haven't got your goodies packed, but I will ASAP!  My deepest apologies, Amigo!  I actually thought I'd be coming down to Radcliff by now, but no.  It'd sure save a TON of postage/shipping fees!  I figure we could meet somewhere convenient to both of us if we get down to my Bud's house.  I'll call one of these days and we'll chat more, instead of me clogging up Triple W's post!

Sorry, TripW!

[SGT John Chapman]

I'm around,... all over,...