Cylinder Pin lube?

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy Again

A bunch of years ago I borrowed Wild Bill's 1875 Remmie for a match and did get through five stages with no problems. To tell the truth, this was long enough ago that I don't remember if I was shooting Big Lube bullets at the time, or if I was still shooting my pan lubed bullets, which did not perform as well with Black Powder as the Big Lubes do. Whatever the case, I would only have been lubing the pin with Ballistol, I have never used anything else. So I got through five stages with no problems.

By coincidence, Wild Bill brought his 1875 Remmie to the Country Pond match last  Sunday. He was shooting smokeless that day, and he brought the Remmie because we both agree it does not do as well with Black Powder as our other guns on the Colt pattern do. So after the match I asked him to pull the cylinder because I wanted to see the bushing. Yep, it is tiny. I would guess no more than .060 tall or so, if that. I didn't have a caliper on me, so that was just a guess.

I have posted a couple of photos here to further the discussion. This first shot is of three cylinders, an Uberti Cattleman on the left, a stainless 'original model' Vaquero in the center, and a 2nd Gen Colt on the right.

The Vaquero does not have a removable bushing, it is an integral part of the cylinder, I suspect your Remmie bushing is the same.




The Colt and the Uberti do have removable bushings, in this photo I have pulled the bushings out and have posed them in front of their respective cylinders, the Uberti on the left, the Colt on the right.



Now before any body starts saying that removable bushings make a cylinder perform better with Black Powder, I want to say right now that is a bunch of hooey! It is the length of the bushing that makes the difference, not whether or not  you can pull it out. I can run just as many Black Powder rounds through my Rugers as I can through my Colts. It makes no difference at all. I can shoot a two day ten stage match with out cleaning anything in between and both perform just as well. Beyond that torture test any difference which anybody can measure really does not mean very much, at least not as far as Cowboy Action shooting is concerned.

OK, here are a few numbers for you to digest. I just pulled that  Colt cylinder out and measured it. With the bushing in place, it stands .075 proud of the cylinder face. I also measured the Vaquero cylinder, and it stands a whopping .125 proud of the cylinder face. While I was at it I grabbed one of Mrs Johnson's New Vaqueros, and its built in bushing stands .090 proud of the cylinder. I did not measure the cylinder pins, but I know from past experience they are very close to .250 in diameter with both Rgers and Colts..

Another point needs to be made. Notice the flute that runs around the Colt bushing? And see the way Uberti imitated it? This may or may not have anything to do with keeping a revolver running with Black Powder. I was visiting Happy Trails once a few years ago and he was working on a Vaquero at the time. I don't remember which type of Vaquero it was, but I noticed he was cutting a flute around the bushing, much as is on a Colt bushing. I asked him about it and he said he believed the groove helped in guiding fouling away from the cylinder pin. I actually shoot much more BP than Hap does, but I have great respect for his insight. What ever the case is, as I said my Rugers run just fine with Black Powder and lots and lots of BP compatible bullet lube.
I have said this many times, ya gotta have a lot of soft gooey lube on your bullets to get them to perform well with Black Powder.

Cylinder pin diameter will add something to the mix, the smaller the diameter pin, the more it clogs up with the same amount of fouling. However I'll bet your Remmie pins are very close to .250 in diameter, so that should be a wash. No question, the taller the bushing, the more distance it puts between the opening in the frame where the pin is and the barrel/cylinder gap. My experience says that is crucial.

Regarding opening up the cylinder gap, I know a lot of folks believe that, but I can tell that my experience with Colts, clones and Rugers has been to just leave well enough alone as far as gaps are concerned. I have not opened up a factory gap on any one of my guns, they all run between .005 and .008. It is the height of the bushing that makes all the difference for keeping a revolver rolling with Black Powder.

Bottom line is, ya gotta do what ya gotta do. If you have to remove your cylinders once during a match to give them a little bit of attention, how bad is that? I learned a long time ago that my 1858 Remingtons, which have no bushings at all, must be wiped down after every cylinder full, or they will begin to bind. So how much of a big deal is it to wipe down a cylinder once during a match?

[Sod Buster]

I have a pair of 1875 Uberti's in 44-40.  They would not go five rounds before seizing up...usually on the 4th or 5th round.  I sent them off to Happy Trails (The Smith Shop) and he modified the cylinders to accept a steel gas check bushings.  The bushing looks similar to the Colt bushing with the scoop to deflect the gases from the pin.  I have not had a problem with fouling since.

He had to cut the frames slightly to accommodate these larger bushings.

[Wagon Box Willy]

. . . . Yep, it is tiny. I would guess no more than .060 tall or so, if that. I didn't have a caliper on me, so that was just a guess.

.035 on mine.

[ZVP]

 Thanks very much to all for the help!
It looks like I need to mailorder some ballistisol oil. Everyone seems to love it! Shops here don't carry it but I located it on line.
I polished my Remington cylinder shafts and they run fine with just a little oil or grease (oil is best)
For now, I am running the yellow Bore Butter on the Colt Replicas. They have nice wide grooves that hold grease.
You all have been a great help!
ZVP