First cartridge belts???

[Henry4440]

Yellowstone Kelly wrote in his book that he purchased in Nov. 1868 a Henry along with a supply of .44 cartridges.
.....Next morning, with two woolen blankets strapped on my back and a belt of ammunition with knife and case.........

Is he using a cartidge belt with loops or a belt with a cartridge pouch? And when did the first cartridge belts with loops appears?

[Trailrider]

Not sure about civilian cartridge belts, but Army saddler sergeants were making them up using CW waist belts from the time metallic cartridge-firing arms were issued on the frontier (c. 1866), especially with .50-70 and .45-70 rifles, where the ammo weighed quite a bit when concentrated in a cartridge box.  By 1874, Ordnance was issuing canvas cartridge belts due to the problem with leather belts and loops causing vertigris forming on the cartridges after extensive periods of time keeping the ammo in the loops. (Even today, one should NOT store ammo in the loops for more than a few days to a week, and should check the ammo for the green crud after taking it out of the loops.  During the Big Horn & Yellowstone Expedition of 1876, Capt. Michaelis, the Ordnance officer of the Dept. of the Platte was inspecting the troops in the field with Gen. Crook.  Most of the troops were using some type of "mountain" or "prairie" belt as the cartridge belts were invariable called, instead of the M1874 Dyer Pouch.  Finally, they found a sergeant who was wearing the pouch, and apparently no cartridge belt. (This was in camp, so he probably took it off when he spotted the inspectors.)  When they commended him on being dressed according to regulations, but asked him to open the Dyer Pouch, he did, and they found...the pouch contained a sandwich! 

[St. George]

This one comes up periodically, so...

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St. George's Notes XXIII - Cartridge Belt Loops...
« on: November 12, 2005, 01:35:16 pm »     

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With the new manufacture of the various Cartridge Conversions - it's only natural to want to know a bit more about how they were carried and used in the post-Civil War West.

The various holsters are fairly self-explanatory - it was the dawning of the simply-made 'Mexican Loop' hoster - but the method of carrying ammunition was changing rapidly from the earlier use of a pouch and pocket flask.

The cartridge belt followed on the heels of the self-contained cartridge - seeing limited use in the Civil War as an unauthorized accouterment to Henrys and Spencers.

In a letter to the Editor of the 'Army and Navy Journal' in 1869 - an anonymous Civil War veteran wrote the following:

"Long before the issue of the present breech-loader to the infantry, those of that corps who were detailed on temporary mounted duty would purchase a breech-loading gun of the Henry, Spencer or other pattern and make for themselves a belt, taking for a pattern that in use by the mountaineers or hunters in their midst. 
The men of entire regiments provided themselves with these belts when the new guns and ammuntion were issued to them;  and they made use of them when on escort duty, changing station, etc. etc.
The old, cumbersome cartridge box was packed up in the same ignominius way in which the old Army hats were carried when changing station.
This is true of the men of the regiments occupying the Powder River country from 1866 to 1868 and who had as good an opportunity to test the matter as any regiments in service during those years."

The Army would see the value - or at least it's troopers did - and eventually,  the 'Fair Weather Christian Belt' (pre-1876)' would be in use - to be followed by standardization and adoption of the Model of 1876 Prairie Belt.

Remember - civilians often copied that which they saw the Army use - so as breech-loaders and revolvers made their way into the West - 'working' designs would be copied in a commercial manner and those same designs would evolve.


Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[Henry4440]

Thanks for the information guys!!

[ChuckBurrows]

This was discussed some time back in the NCOWS forum and Bill Proctor posted a date of 1861 for the patent date on cartridge lops on a belt.