Best Safe Position on 1851

[ashlyngr]

  I have two Pietta 1851 Confederate Revolvers. I would like to hear from more experienced Darksiders on their thoughts on the safe position.
   First, in all my Single Action (Cowboy) shooting I always rest my hammer over an empty chamber of my cylinder.
   Second, I know some Darksiders place their hammers over an indicated chamber, or a chamber with a different colored nipple, or possibly a removed nipple as a safe position. I've also seen revolvers with a plug of sorts plugging the muzzle side of a chamber.
   However, in the Pietta manual, they state the slot in the hammer should rest over a very small Cylinder Safety Pin. There is so little protrusion of this pin to fit in the hammer slot that I hardly think it could be safe.
   Any thoughts and opinions on the 1851 revolver safe position will be greatly apprieciated.

Thanks,
Old Overholt Rye

[Pettifogger]

Those pins are basically useless.  Hammer down on an empty chamber is the only truly safe position.   I use Treso nipples with a stainless or blue nipple for the dead chamber.  You don't want to remove the nipple or plug the chamber as occassionally you will have a reload on a stage.

[Mako]

Pettifogger is right about the pins being fragile.  I'm not sure how it happens but they seem to "go away" after very limited use, and I don't mean use of the pins.  They seem to get mashed and smeared, and I haven't figured out how it happens yet.  I don't designate a chamber I just rest it on an unloaded chamber, I figure that way I'll keep the wear a little more even.

I can see why people would have a color coded or marked chamber, it would be a safety aid.  I load my chambers pretty full and I have a wad under the balls as well, so the balls are close to the mouth of the chambers.  You can see the balls if you tip it about 30° degrees at the loading table (still very safe, people are pointing them down at more of an angle while stuffing cartridges into their pistols) .  If you load light it would be harder to see, and it's not a good idea to stick your head forward at the loading table to look back in a deep seated chamber.  It's not just your pistol you have to worry about, but everyone else at the table as well.

A safety marker might be a good idea, especially while getting into the rhythm of shooting percussion pistols at matches.

Regards,
Mako

[Noz]

For ease of cleaning, I remove the "safety" pins from my competition guns. Hammer down on an uncapped chamber. I don't desiginate a dead chamber. I load as they come up. If you hit a club that jumps ugly over checking the chambers by looking, use your cap pusher stick to find the empty chamber.

[StrawHat]

(I am not a competitior so what I have to say may have little bearing on what is accepted in competition circles.)

First, if you are in competition, what do the clubs you shoot at require you to do? 

The military asked for and got those pins for the purpose of carrying the revolver with all six chambers charged.  The hammer on the empty came about when the Colts Model P was in common use.  I have used the pins on my revovlers for quite a few years and have not noticed any disappearing.  If the slot in the hammer is cut properly, it will lock onto the pin and you are good to go.  On my older revolvers, the hammer and pins meld well together.  On my newer ones, I have had to widen the slot on a couple to allow for a proper fit.  ANd on one revolver, an 1851 with the GU stamp, there is no slot and no pins.

As I have said, for me the pins work.  Oh, I carry in an open top holster, not a flap holster.

[Mako]

(I am not a competitior so what I have to say may have little bearing on what is accepted in competition circles.)

First, if you are in competition, what do the clubs you shoot at require you to do?  

The military asked for and got those pins for the purpose of carrying the revolver with all six chambers charged.  The hammer on the empty came about when the Colts Model P was in common use.  I have used the pins on my revovlers for quite a few years and have not noticed any disappearing.  If the slot in the hammer is cut properly, it will lock onto the pin and you are good to go.  On my older revolvers, the hammer and pins meld well together.  On my newer ones, I have had to widen the slot on a couple to allow for a proper fit.  ANd on one revolver, an 1851 with the GU stamp, there is no slot and no pins.

As I have said, for me the pins work.  Oh, I carry in an open top holster, not a flap holster.

Hey Straw Hat,
Bear with me a minute as we go through your post.

SASS clubs require that you put them on an empty chamber, or in the event you have a 5 shot cylinder 'a la some of the conversion cylinders or a Paterson you must do as it says in the SASS Shooter's Handbook "Five shooters may load five rounds, but the hammer must rest on a dummy chamber, safety slot or pin in the cylinder so the hammer does not rest on a live round/cap."  The "pin" was just added in the 2010 handbook, so now there is no question with Patersons as there was before.

First of all the military didn't ask for the pins it was an early feature, I need to find the citation but i read (again this is all from memory) that Colt added one pin to a few Paterson revolver (like the early 1848 Baby Dragoons) even before he sat down with Walker. And when he and Walker collaborated there wasn't a military RFQ or any specification of features.  Colt and Samuel Walker were both aware of the issue with the Paterson revolvers, it seems adding 6 pins was Colt's answer because they appeared on the next model which was the 1847 Walker.

Second the hammer on an empty chamber wasn't common when SAA were in use.  Army records and ammunition issues were based around the pistols being fully loaded.  The 5 shot loading appears to be a contrivance of 20th century writers.  Even the author of Wyatt Earps biography has been discredited when it comes to a story he related about Earp and a pistol that supposedly had an AD when it fell from his holster.  His story was that Wyatt asked him not to print it.  Since then it appears he embellished many of his accounts and Earp was no longer around to call him a liar.  That story is one that as been added to the list of unsubstantiated.

Now for modern shooters, you may do whatever you wish, but I believe the phrase is "six shooter" for a reason."

Be careful if you widen the slot, the slot creates it's own set of problems which is why a lot of us fill them.  The pins would work for me too if I was carrying one as a sidearm.  I might even pull the pins, redrill the pinholes and add a hardened pin such as a drill blank.

In the end does it really matter if you are safety minded how you choose to carry your pistols?  Be aware though, as some of us have indicated the pins on the Italian revolvers are fragile and soft.  They seem to get mushroomed or "wiped" off of the cylinders.

Regards,
Mako

[StrawHat]

Mako,

You replies are always welcome and at times remind me of info I need to remember or need to research.  I'll take your word on the Club rules, I am out of compretition for good.

My refernces to the pins and the SAA loading came from reading Keith and earlier writers.  So I am guilty of repeating information of which I have not researched.

I widen the slots enough to accept the pins, no more.  And the pins are not hard to replace.  I have used piano wire but like the idea of drill bits, it seems I have more than a few broken small ones.

Thanks for adding to the flow of information.