Shoes

Tascosa Joe · May 05, 2011, 02:54:45 PM

ALL:

A few months back a picture of a rail road survey party from the 1860's was on here someplace. One of the men looked like he was wearing penny loafers. Can anyone guide me back to the picture?

Thanks

T-Joe

Delmonico · May 05, 2011, 03:37:26 PM

Quote from: Tascosa Joe on May 05, 2011, 02:54:45 PM
ALL:

A few months back a picture of a rail road survey party from the 1860's was on here someplace. One of the men looked like he was wearing penny loafers. Can anyone guide me back to the picture?

Thanks

T-Joe

I'm guessing you mean this one:

It's a scan from the companion book to The West by Ken Burns. I don't have my copy handy but it seems the date was late 1860's. It's one I'd like to have a better copy of.

Tascosa Joe · May 05, 2011, 03:44:18 PM

Thanks Del. That is the photo.

Fox Creek Kid · May 05, 2011, 08:23:34 PM

The four surveyors in the photo were later found dead & scalped. I believe it was 1874 and by Comanches. Evidently they needed something a little more fleet of foot!

Delmonico · May 05, 2011, 11:08:48 PM

Quote from: Fox Creek Kid on May 05, 2011, 08:23:34 PM
The four surveyors in the photo were later found dead & scalped. I believe it was 1874 and by Comanches. Evidently they needed something a little more fleet of foot!

Could be the date, I know they were killed and scalped. I never looked into very deep. Wouldn't be the first picture way off base in that book.

Major 2 · May 06, 2011, 05:25:11 AM

Very interesting photo...the two soldiers seem to have 3 banded muskets and forage caps and both seemingly are wearing frock coats.

Deadeye Don · May 06, 2011, 05:28:25 AM

The only expanation is that they were time travelers.

Delmonico · May 06, 2011, 09:53:14 AM

Could have been 1867 and it could have been Cheyenne.

Just off old US-40, a memorial honors six rail surveyors who were killed by Cheyenne Indians in 1867. The killings led to the Battle of the Saline River.

http://www.legendsofkansas.com/victoria.html

Link from there:

Battle of the Saline River (1867) - In August, 1867, P.S. Ashley and a crew of six were surveying the route for the Union Pacific Railway when they were attacked by a group of about 30 Cheyenne warriors, attempting to stop the construction of the iron rails through their homeland. All six of the railroad workers were killed, but one man named William Gould survived and was brought to Fort Hays where he told his story, before he too, died of his wounds. At that time, one of Fort Hays main functions was to protect the railroad workers and Captain Henry Corbin, commanding the Thirty-eighth Infantry and Tenth Cavalry, known as the "Buffalo Soldiers," immediately ordered Captain George Armes, Company F, Tenth Cavalry, in pursuit of the Cheyenne.

I'm guessing this is the bunch killed, now that I read it there is something familiar about it, probably read about it before.

Also seems there was a party of surveyors killed in Kansas in the early 1870's sometime and somewhere about the same time the Germain daughters were taken. I think though it was Kiowa's not sure, might have time to check it out later if no one else wants to.

Deadeye Dick · May 06, 2011, 10:18:49 AM

Quote from: Delmonico on May 06, 2011, 09:53:14 AM
Also seems there was a party of surveyors killed in Kansas in the early 1870's sometime and somewhere about the same time the Germain daughters were taken. I think though it was Kiowa's not sure, might have time to check it out later if no one else wants to.

Appears to be Cheyenne's that did the deed.
http://www.kshs.org/p/kansas-historical-quarterly-united-states-surveyors-massacred-by-indians/12546
Deadeye Dick

Delmonico · May 06, 2011, 06:10:41 PM

Quote from: Deadeye Dick on May 06, 2011, 10:18:49 AM
Appears to be Cheyenne's that did the deed.
http://www.kshs.org/p/kansas-historical-quarterly-united-states-surveyors-massacred-by-indians/12546
Deadeye Dick

Thanks, I was in the middle of something else and was just taking a break.

I also think I remember where I had heard of the other innodent. I think it was mentioned in one of Terry C. Johnston's historical novels in The Plainsmen series. I think if I remember right in the book he'd scouted the chase for the Cheyenne with either the 9th or 10th. Been a while since I read it.

Fox Creek Kid · May 06, 2011, 10:06:13 PM

Del, that's not the same bunch I believe, however I could be wrong. I could swear these men in the photo were killed in Texas.

Delmonico · May 06, 2011, 10:41:15 PM

Quote from: Fox Creek Kid on May 06, 2011, 10:06:13 PM
Del, that's not the same bunch I believe, however I could be wrong. I could swear these men in the photo were killed in Texas.

Not sure either, I don't have my copy of the West handy, it's in storage right now. I think all it said was they were killed by Indians any way. Surveyors for the RR were not real popular with Indians.