Russian shoulder stock?

[TennHillyBill]

I saw this one picture of the Russian with stock.  Couldn't find any pics/info on the web.  Search here had a couple of references but I guess old pics are 'X'd.  I'm a real nut on pistols with shoulder stocks......practical no, but real cool!  I saw reference to the strap being 'cut' in two places, the butt, once.  Any info appreciated, toying with making one!  Bill

[Montana Slim]

Might try searching the auction sites for photos (Rock Island Auction, too). I've seen just a few auctioned in the past...the revolver & stock sets bring $4K++, depending on condition.

Slim

[St. George]

Before you really think about making one - check with the BATF - some shoulder-stocked pistols (new cartridge ones) are illegal.

Ever fired something like this before?

You can't believe the blast of escaping gases a few inches from your eyebrows...

Scouts Out!

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[Stillwater]

Before you really think about making one - check with the BATF - some shoulder-stocked pistols (new cartridge ones) are illegal.

Ever fired something like this before?

You can't believe the blast of escaping gases a few inches from your eyebrows...

Scouts Out!

The above is very true... So take warning...

What is also just as true is the blast of gas that comes out of the flash gap between the cylinder and the barrel.

Just shoot your shoulder stocked pistol, with your hand supporting the barrel and see what kind of a burn you wrist will suffer... You will only do it once...

Bill

[Trailrider]

The above is very true... So take warning...

What is also just as true is the blast of gas that comes out of the flash gap between the cylinder and the barrel.

Just shoot your shoulder stocked pistol, with your hand supporting the barrel and see what kind of a burn you wrist will suffer... You will only do it once...

Bill

It could be worse than just a burn! High pressure gas can cut like a scapel! It just depends on how close your wrist is to the gap, and the pressure and velocity of the exhaust gas from the gap.  The proper way to hold a revolving "rifle" is with the "off" hand overlapping the  trigger hand, a la a two hand hold.

I concur with checking with BATFE on this, especially if you are making one yourself. I believe an original gun with detachable shoulder stock is now acceptable, e.g., a C96.

[St. George]

The various stocked C96s and Brownings and Lugers are classified as 'Curio and Relic' weapons - and they were originally cut for a stock, in most cases.

It's one of those ideas that seem like a smart one, at the time - until the shooter's eye focuses and really 'sees' the recoiling slide and gets an eyeful of powder fouling and oil and then - it's put aside, or shot from the hip like a machine carbine.

If it were truly a good idea - you'd see more of them.

This idea would take a brand-new revolver and cut it for a stock - and then build a stock for it - 'not' a good idea - nor legal.

Talk to your local BATF agent for more.

Folks complain about 'lead-spitting' and such, already - and that's with the piece three feet in front of them.

On the other hand - they're your eyes and flesh, and if you want to provide drama at a shoot - I'm sure that'll fit the bill.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[1stSgt Fritz King]

I have fired both Broomhandle Mausers and Browning Hi Powers with shoulder stocks.  Both are very accurate and fun to shoot.  I could ring a steel plate at 300 yards with the ones my buddy owned.  They were originals and the curios and relics clause applied.  Originals are good to go, but repros are "frowned upon" by the BATF. 

[Stillwater]

I have two 1860 Army revolvers with shoulder stocks and an 1858 Remington revolving carbine. These are replica firearms.

I shoot these regularly, and they shoot quiet well. In fact they are much more accurate than shooting the pistol by itself.

You just need to know your firearm, and how to properly operate it. Being very prudent, I wear safety glasses when I shoot them. I have never been hit with pieces of the caps, or anything else.

However, since there is always the prospect, of getting hit with pieces of the caps, I won't shoot them without safety glasses.

Even if the glasses aren't "old west."

Speaking of the 1858 Remington Revolving Carbine, I have a picture of my great grandfather holding one of them on his lap. The picture was taken pre Civil War, taken in about 1860.

Bill

[TennHillyBill]

It's almost difficult to respond to some of the comments.  Let's see now: I note Dixie currently offers stocks for the 1851 Navy, the 1860 Army, a 'Wyatt Earp' version, and a Howdah.  Then, there's the C-93 Borchardt, the C-96 Mauser, P-08 Luger, the Browning HP & Inglis, the 1911 .45.  Practical....maybe not, popular, I beg to differ.  Illegal, like saying machineguns are 'illegal'.  Perhaps so, if not registered and taxable, but I dare say not, per se, illegal.  As for "ever firing something like this", I would suggest that after 32 years in the United States Army as an Infantry Officer, and some of that in Special Ops, I have probably fired almost every small arm ever made.  I guess if someone is 'inexperienced'...I'm being polite, and holds the barrel of a stocked revolver and fire it, I suppose getting 'stung' is the result.  My apologies for bringing this up, clearly I've hit some nerves....

[Shotgun Franklin]

From the best I understand the buttstock with revolver was to give a mounted soldier a carbine when he needed one. Never much caught on although some bought their own. I suppose it's better than 'just' the handgun but likely not much. I've handled a few  handguns with the grips slotted for a buttstock but only remember seeing one where the stock and gun had stayed together over the years. Just for me, I'd rather have a light short carbine than a handgun that could be fitted with a stock.

[Pony Racer]

THB... it didn't bother me but to speak to legalities...

The curio and relic guns are fine with shoulder stocks.

Since federally cap and balls "guns" are non-guns (by definition) shoulder stocks are fine too. Now there might be some states with funky enough gun laws that this might be in jeapordy pending what state you live in.

Any modern handgun once mated with a shoulder stock becomes a Short barreled gun by definition and requires a tax stamp/class II for SBR status at minimum.

Now would BATFE be that interested in a shoulder stocked 1873 or No. 3 Russian repro regardless of barrel length? Many agents might not be - but the day one agent is - could be a very bad day for that person if they like to own and or shoot guns.

I like the shoulder stocked weapons myself.  I think of them as sort of a precursor to the subguns that become extremely popular in WWII and beyond!

PR

[Short Knife Johnson]

I wouldn't say you ruffled any feathers either Bill.  Just a few fellows who don't want to have to try to bust you out of jail. 

I have a bit of a working knowledge of the U.S. gun laws, and most of these shoulder stocks you see fall under the antique (pre-1899 and therefore non-firearm), black powder(also no FFL requirements), or relic (pre-1946?) and not subject to current regulations.  I'm not sure what the rules here in Canada are on these.  I've never seen one of recent or antique manufacture.  I'm guessing the reason shoulder stocks faded into obscurity is that they were an answer a series of questions nobody asked. 

Question 1 - "My wife says I have too many guns.  What could I have that combines my lightweight carbine and the portability of a handgun so as I can kowtow to her will?   

Question 2 - "I don't get near enough muzzle blast and debris in my face and hands.  Is there a firearm out there that could cure that?"   

OK, now someone can swoop in with the real answer... I've got to get to work.

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

Here are some photos you may find interesting.The first two are S&W New Model Number Threes. The last photo may be the same one you found. I found a description of the auction item and I cut and pasted it into this post below the photos. By the way, the Russian with stock went for $5,500.

Sounds to me like there were two cuts on the backstrap of the Russian and one at the heel, whereas there was only one cut on the backstrap and one on the heel for the New Model Number Three.












Scarce Smith & Wesson Model 3 Russian 2nd Model Revolver with Shoulder Stock
One of approximately 5,000 commercial arms manufactured. This is a rare variation that is cut for a shoulder stock, the back strap is cut twice and once again in the butt unlike the standard New model number three which only featured two cuts. Barrel rib is marked "SMITH & WESSON SPRINGFIELD MASS. U.S.A. PAT. JULY 10. 60. JAN. 17. FEB. 17. JULY 11. 65. & AUG. 24. 69 RUSSIAN MODEL". The second model Russian features the reverse spur curved trigger guard and humpback grip straps. Lanyard ring mounted in the butt. Smooth walnut grips with thumb indentations. The ejector catch has been replaced. The barrel, cylinder and latch are miss matched to the frame and numbered "26606."
BBL: 7 inch solid rib
Stock:
Gauge: 44 Russian
Finish: nickel
Grips: walnut
Serial Number: 37206

Condtion: Good as refurbished. All metal surfaces retain 95% nickel finish showing signs of heavy buffing and some minor patches of delicate pin prick type pitting (under the plating) and some scattered minor handling marks. The grips are very fine showing only scattered pressure marks concentrated to the right side. The stock is fine as refurbished with some pressure marks and a few specs of dark varnish. Over all a very rare seldom encountered variation.
Estimate: $4000 - $6000

P.S. the members here are only trying to do you a good turn by warning you about revolvers with shoulder stocks. You are relatively new here and not to many of us know you. As stated, C&B revolvers with shoulder stocks will not be treated the same as cartridge guns.

I have poked through my S&W books and so far I have found nothing specific about the shoulder stocks, other than the guns had to be specially adapted for them, the stocks would not fit on a stock gun.

Short Knife Johnson: Cartridge handguns are still viewed as firearms by the Federal government even if made before 1899. Curio and Relic status is automatically bestowed on anything over fifty years old, plus there is a big list of C&R guns the government puts out that are less than fifty years old.

[TennHillyBill]

Thanks for the research and photos!  I find the combination an excellent example of industrial design,  The lines just seem to flow.  The holster is interesting too, the toe-end loop suggesting perhaps it attached to the stock...maybe like the Borchardt.  Though another story, I read the other day, Buffalo Bill used a Borchardt in his Wild West Show.  How about one of those for CAS shooting?  I save the pics, haven't seen those!  Looking at the current prices of 'collector' books put those out of my range.  Bill