Vintage repair questions for a Collins holster....

Dalton Masterson · March 20, 2011, 09:21:43 PM

Howdy!
I scored a GH and JS Collins Omaha Neb marked slim jim holster today at the gun show. A guy at another table down the way told me about it yesterday, and brought it to show me today. He said I could take some pics, and trace the pattern if I wanted to, which I gratefully did. Anyhoo, at the end of the day, I made an offer, and it is home with me now.

It was a lined holster at one time, with a missing toe plug. Fancy incised carving typical of Collins, adorns it. It also has a cool scallop like top throat edge. One other thing is that the copper rivets holding the loop on go through the lining, so they are against the gun. There is still some lining material under the rivets.

I am not sure what it fits. When I poke a 51 Navy (Pietta) in it, it rattles around, and the barrel just comes out the bottom. A 58 Remington (again Pietta) might be close, but I think the barrel would be too long on it as well. A SAA might come close, but I see no signs of ejector rod wear, but with the missing lining, I suppose I wouldnt see much evidence. Whatever it is, the only thing that pokes out is the grip and the very tip of the hammer.

Anyway, back to the issue. It is unstitched, which I had planned to fix, but am thinking I wont now, due to fear of tearing the holes. The leather is very pliable yet, and has that slightly musty leather smell to it.

SO, should I use some Skidmores on it, or order something else too protect it?

Dalton Masterson · March 20, 2011, 09:26:04 PM

I have a few more questions..

It is marked GH and JS Collins Omaha Neb on it with a big number 5 above the mark. What does the 5 mean?
The GH and JS Collins portion of the stamp is in a rainbow like arc while the Omaha NEB is in a straight line across the bottom of the stamp. How old is this stamp? Is it an early one before they went to Cheyenne and Montana? Or did they keep the Omaha shop running with the same stamps?
I will post some pics of it later on when I get a copy of it made. I like doing the before and after type projects...

Thanks,
DM

Ten Wolves Fiveshooter · March 20, 2011, 09:37:32 PM

Nice find Dalton, I'll look forward to seeing this holster, sounds like it might have a lot of history.

tEN wOLVES

Wild Billy Potts · March 20, 2011, 10:54:28 PM

Most anything I've heard of that is historical is usually best left as you found it. From discussions I've had in the past with collectors, but firearms and leather, light, non-invasive cleaning, preserving is fine but repairing isn't.

KidTerico · March 21, 2011, 12:03:22 AM

Dalton nice find. i would definately use the Skidmores on it. KT

ChuckBurrows · March 21, 2011, 12:33:07 AM

If Buck Stinson aka Rick Bachman doesn't check in PM and ask him - IMO he can answer your questions rgarding an original and it's markings better than anyone who visits here.
Conservation and rehab of old leather is a specialty skill and not to be taken lightly - adding oil or conditioners can and may in fact cause more problems......Back when I did lots of repair work I sadly saw way too much good old leather damaged and often ruined beyond repair by not using the proper conservation methods - it's why museums hire experts in that specialized field rather than general leather crafters.

Cliff Fendley · March 21, 2011, 05:37:42 AM

Nice find, please post some pics when you can.

Slowhand Bob · March 21, 2011, 07:27:10 AM

I agree with Chuck, do nothing for now, doing nothing will not require undoing! The last thing we would want is for something that has survived beyond our grandfathers day to end its life due to our mistakes. At one time there were several museum sites that offered minimum advice on how to do some basic care for old leather and a search might still turn something up. Even this has some dangers as there were changes made on the techniques recommended some years back. I do remember that at some point there was nothing short of protecting the leather from further decomposition and attack by outside elements recommended.

I really like the fact that you tell us about the exposed rivets, this used to be real common in a lot of the low end factory stuff when I was a young guy. Remember my pride and joy, a new Ruger Super Black Hawk, get its first cylinder scratches from a days ride in an old Hunter, I think, holster that the dealer through in. A valuable lesson for a budding leather crafter and it took years to accept that rivets could be used in this way if properly done.

I would love to see pictures from all angles and give us all of the little noticeable little details, such as was it carved or embossed? Perhaps there are other exact copies of it in a book or collection somewhere and this quest might bring them out. Thanks for the post Dalton, as much as I love playing cowboy and ruining good leather, this type of history is what it is all about!

Marshal Will Wingam · March 21, 2011, 10:07:25 AM

That's a great find, Dalton. That one sounds very interesting. Please post pics if you can.

Don Nix · March 21, 2011, 01:18:41 PM

I used to do quire a bit of historical redtoration for collections and museums. primarily on saddles. The thing is to determine what you want to do with the peice.
For Historical purposes. cleaning the dirt off is formost then using a good preservative oil is next then just leave it alone.
If you want to stitch it up and reuse it or make it funtional. then go ahead. if you have the skillto match the stitch holes and replace the toe plug it can be done but it will take patience and a light hand.
Skidnores is good as is any of the light oils such as Lexol.
Clean water and a soft cloth is okay but do not use a brush. the temptaion to use a brush when cleaning built up crud on old leather can cause some majot damage.
if done right and carefully an old peice can be restored back to life if its not too far gone to start with. Patience is the key.

Dalton Masterson · March 21, 2011, 01:30:08 PM

Thanks for that info Don.
I think it would be usable, but I am going to leave it as is. The leather is very pliable, but I am afraid of tearing out the holes. There is only 1/8" space to the edge all around. Its stitched at 9 or 10 tpi.

I did a rubbing of the pattern today. Its pretty, and all incised with some knife work. Very elegant and simple at the same time.
Pics will happen soon I hope.
Gonna try to lay the pattern out tonite, as I am going to make the fellow I got it from a copy of it for his '58 Rem.
DM

Cliff Fendley · March 21, 2011, 06:25:39 PM

That's the thing about the old pieces, those guys stitched at 8-10 TPI and very close to the edge. This is the one area where most of our holsters today differ from the originals even when we are shooting for period correct gear. I tighten mine up to 7 TPI for some period pieces but it becomes a balance of making it accurate but able to withstand the use of Cowboy action shooting without tearing out.

How heavy is the leather Dalton? Some of the ones you see are thinner than the common 8-9 oz we use today. Seems like many originals are more like 7 oz.

Looking forward to the pics.

Dalton Masterson · March 21, 2011, 07:24:24 PM

I would say that it is 7-8 oz.

I am trying to figure out what it might have fit...
I can faintly see where the trigger rested inside, and the size rules out a typical percussion era pistol, unless it was a Dragoon or something. I dont think its long enough for the barrel of that.
An Uberti SAA will fit nicely at the top, but the holster slims down at the bottom, not leaving room for an ejector. SO, something SAA sized up top, with maybe a percussion type slim barrel.

Another question... How do guys that collect these sorts of holster display them?? I assume they dont have them thrown in a box in the back of a closet.
Is there a plan for a rack of some sort to hold them? (wifes question, she wants to pretty up my gun show table).
Thanks, DM