Another Rifle question Carbine vs Rifle?

[Paddy OFurniture]

So now I have settled on the maker of rifle I want.  My next question is carbine vs rifle?  What do you guys shoot most rifle length long arms or carbine lenght long arms.

Thanks

[Jefro]

Howdy Paddy, IMHO the most popular I see are 20'' Win Uberti 73/66 rifle, with Marlin next. The 20'' is lighter and much easier to handle, especially around props, through doors and windows. In your other post you said you were interested in the.45, just remember the .45 is a straight wall case that has considerable blow back, even worse fouling if you ever decide to shoot BP. The 38/357 does not have this problem even though it too is a straight wall case. Again IMHO the 44/40 is the best big bore rifle caliber, sumpin' to think about. Good Luck

Jefro

[Paddy OFurniture]

Jefro,

Thanks,  you do bring up a point about the cases.  I have only shot in cowboy comps twice before.  Also, I maybe overthinking this too much.  The first time i shot was '04 with borrowed saa's, 73, & shotgun.  Was excited, came in 3rd place of 65 shooters.  The second time I shot was '06, I shot my own 2 saa's in 45LC my coach gun, and learned that a spencer carbine in cas competition is cool to look at but a handicap when shooting.  So here I am in 2011, and this time I am asking lots of questions.  I like the 45 colt pretty much as much as you like the 44-40 (44WCF).  I know that in a world of 38 shooters the 45 maybe a handicap but I will keep shooting it.  So you recomend a carbine?  Are most stages set for 10 rifle shots?  I know that the rifle length guns hold up to 12 or 13.  Will 10 shots do most of the time?

Thanks
Paddy O'Furniture

[Major 2]

Patty O

He is suggesting the 20" rifle , the carbine is 19", both hold 10 rounda

You'll be fine with 45 Colt , it's actually  easier to find in my neck o the woods and I'm told 44/40 is backorder anyway.  
I see some blow by about 1/2 way down the case with 45.  No real issue with fouling, but a spritz of Blistol is near by if needed.
I don't reload so , over the counter reloads or factory for me.....

That said, I just snapped up a 20" 73 in 44 Spl. also a straight case.  I'll let you know how it performs.

[Jefro]

Howdy Paddy, I recommend you try before you buy, I have both 20'' and 24'' rifles, not carbines. Start going to some local matches and introduce yourself to the MD. Most of us are more than willing to let you try our gear, we usually bring extra ammo just for newcomers. I like the .45 also, that's what I'm shooting in my pistols now, however I still prefer 38/357 or 44/40 for the rifle, I shoot mostly BP. The Cowboy .45 Special in pistols, and 44/40 rifle is great combo. Full house loads in the .45 are more recoil than I like, the C.45Sp is great in the pistols, plus it saves a little money in relaoding without giving up the fun factor of real BP's smoke and flames. Alot of us have switched to the C.45Sp in our pistols, check em' out at AJ's web site. Good Luck
http://www.cowboy45special.com/

[Christopher Carson]

So now I have settled on the maker of rifle I want.  My next question is carbine vs rifle?  What do you guys shoot most rifle length long arms or carbine lenght long arms.

Thanks

I'll suggest length isn't the only feature.  FWIW, I prefer pistol grip stocks, "rifle"-like magazine and forend hanger systems, rifle sights... but also slightly prefer a 20" barrel.  Happens my '73 short rifle -- pistol grip with a 20" barrel -- is heavier toward the muzzle than my 24" Marlin, and I think I'm beginning to prefer the way it hangs.

I'm still a little ambivalent about the curved rifle buttplate, versus the straight shotgun style.

As before, usually best to shoot several examples first before buying.

-Chris

[Camille Eonich]

Jefro gives good advice, you really need to handle the guns.  Carbines are lighter and handle different.  20" and under are the most popular for both.

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

I photoshopped this picture together in a bit of a hurry, just so you would understand a few 19th Century terms.

Today, we all understand a carbine is a rifle with a short barrel. But in the 19th Century, it was not that simple. Winchester made their lever guns in 3 different configurations. Rifle, Carbine, and Musket. They were not defined as you might think.

The lever gun at the top of the picture is a Winchester Model 1873 made in the rifle configuration. It is defined as being a rifle because it has a cast crescent shaped buttplate, a metal cap at the end of the forend, and the magazine is supported by a hanger dovetailed into the bottom of the barrel. Standard barrel length for the '73 was 24", but they could be had in any length the customer wanted. Round rifle barrels were standard back then, but octagon was almost as common. Half octagon/half round was also available. 1873 rifles with barrels from 14" to 36" were made.

The second levergun from the top is also made in rifle configuration, but it has a barrel about 20" long. It shares all the other characteristics of the longer gun above it.

The third rifle down is a 1873 Carbine. Carbines were defined as having the magazine supported by barrel bands around the barrel and magazine. This one is typical with one barrel band around the forend and one up near the muzzle. Front sights were sometimes part of the front barrel band, sometimes dovetailed into the barrel. The buttplate on a carbine was made from a piece of flat steel that had been bent to a less severe curve than the crescent shape of the rifle. There was also a flat on top of the stock running from the butt plate to the wrist. Barrels on carbines were typically short, 20" was standard. Lengths from 14" to 19" were available, and there is some evidence of a few having been as short as 12". Carbine barrels were always round, and were tapered from frame to muzzle, so they were always lighter than a rifle having the same barrel length.

The odd looking rifle at the bottom is built in the musket configuration. That is what Winchester called them. No, it is not like a flintlock musket, the barrel is rifled. The musket was like an over grown carbine. The stock and buttplate was similar to a carbine. The barrel was round and tapered, standard length was 30". The magazine was supported by barrel bands, like a carbine, three in this case. The most distinguishing feature of the musket configuration was the long forend, reaching almost to the muzzle. Winchester did not sell many muskets in the US, but they sold a lot to foreign governments as military weapons. They usually had provision for a bayonet.



Personally, I prefer 24" rifles for CAS. I just like long barrels. I like the way the heavier barrel hangs on the target.

But not too long ago I lucked into this nifty little Winchester 1892 carbine made in 1919 for a terrific price. I used it for a couple of matches last year. It is very light, like all carbines, the barrel is very light. It is a hoot to shoot and I will probably be using it a lot next year.



I agree that you should probably try a bunch of rifles before you buy one.

Yes, be sure it holds at least ten rounds in the magazine.

[Paddy OFurniture]

Thank you all for your replies.  It is all really good advice and I appreaciate it.  And what a great post about the Carbine, Short Rifle, Rifle, and Musket. 


Paddy

[Trailrider]

One advantage to the M1892 carbines, regardless of who is making the replicas, is the light weight.  While it is true that a heavier barrel will "hang" on target a bit better than a heavier one, it is also true that you need to have a little stronger arms and back with the heavier barrels. Also, the same inertia that holds the barrel steady makes it a tad slower to move from one target to the next.  The longer sight radius is virtually immaterial in SASS matches. The Rossi, et al, '92's are so light and balance so well you can almost shoot them like a pistol!  OTOH, (and I have no experience with the currently-made ones), the earlier '92's sometimes needed tweaking, especially in .357 and .45 LC (the originals were made for the bottlenecked WCF cartridges).  Best is to try-before-buy!

Hope this is of some help.

[Paddy OFurniture]

Well Everyone,

I know your biggest question has been whatrifle did Paddy buy?  I found a never been fired new in the box Uberti 1873 Carbine in 45 colt.  As you know the carbines hold 10 rounds BUT  I found out last night that she will hold 12 .45 Schofield rounds!   I am very happy with my new rifle gun!  Thank you to all who responded!

Paddy

[Camille Eonich]

Congratulations on your find! 


In a SASS match you shouldn't ever need to load over 10 rounds.

[Major 2]

Well Everyone,

I know your biggest question has been whatrifle did Paddy buy?  I found a never been fired new in the box Uberti 1873 Carbine in 45 colt.  As you know the carbines hold 10 rounds BUT  I found out last night that she will hold 12 .45 Schofield rounds!   I am very happy with my new rifle gun!  Thank you to all who responded!

Paddy

Was that to one from a dealer up in Alaska ?  
I saw that on GB... I was having a problem with GB logging on to my account ? or I might have bid on it myself

[Paddy OFurniture]

No Sir,

Not Alaska.  It did come from North Carolina though.

Paddy

[Holden A. Grudge]

Just out of curiousity, what made you decide on the carbine vs. the rifle?

[Paddy OFurniture]

Carbine over a rifle.....
Well it is like this.  I used to work in a sporting goods store's firearms dept back in 03-05.  I handled all the ubertil products carbines, rifles, short rifles, revolvers, and yes even the Marlin rifles.  I knew that I didn't want any form of the 66 (just my personal opinion) prefering the factory smoothness of the '73's.   In 2006 when I did for a very brief time cowboy shoot, I had an uberti full length rifle.  That was way too heavy for me.  That long octagonal bbl and a full mag of 45 colt.....nah not for me.  Just for reference I am not a small or puny guy, I am 6'1'' 260 lbs.    I found (in my own personal opinion again) that the short rifle just wasn't to my liking either.  I really like carbine's useful length, the weight, and the round barrel.  So naturally I chose the carbine.    I also think that for the CAS shooting ranges the carbine will do nicely, it swings very well and when loaded is lighter and more balanced (to me at least) than the rifles (short or long).  I hope that i didn't ramble too much.

Paddy