Double set triggers on an infantry rifle

[ndnchf]

I see on Gunbroker there is a fellow selling an original 3 band infantry rifle with double set triggers, auction #364516966.  Was this something specified by military contract for special use or an aftermarket upgrade by a gunsmith?  I know set triggers were available on sporting rifles, but this is the first time I've seen them on an infantry rifle.   Just curious.

[PvtGreg]

Looks interesting BUT - (and I'm eye-balling here)  The twist looks too fast for a period gun.  Look down the bore and see what you think.

Greg

[Two Flints]

And I don't like the fact that the Spencer "address" at the top of the receiver looks like it has been sanded to prevent reading it  . . . and I found no Spencer Rifles in my SRS books within that serial # range . . .

Two Flints

[Blair]

Is the tumbler cut for a "fly", and is the fly present?
Just a thought.
My best,
Blair

[ndnchf]

Hmmm, quite a mystery. The triggers look old and well made.  I wonder if they were adapted from another rifle. It looks well done.  It would be nice to see the inside of the lock and see if it has a fly. I don't buy the "sniper rifle" statement. 

[PvtGreg]

I still have a problem with the twist rate as I eyeball it.  Could be a later re-barrel.  I'd love to see what Herbert has to say.

[Snakeeater]

Just making observations, mind you. Though there are quite a number of M1860 Rifles in the 23000 serial number range, this rifle has been modified: having a M1865 hammer as well as the Stabler modifications to both the lower block and trigger-plate (the Stabler switch device having been removed). Those three items alone are the "terminus post quem" (or limit from which) that specify the known limits of dating this specimen. Their presence also eliminates these features dating from the Civil War because the Spencers with the Stabler device were not delivered until mid-June 1865. The double-set trigger modification had to have been subsequent.

Here are the serial numbers of other M1860 Spencer Rifles in the 23,000 series:

23082 – forearm marked "A.B.M." (priced at $3600 by Marc4Antiques.com)
http://www.marks4antiques.com/apa/SPENCER-CIVIL-WAR-ERA-RIFLE-Cal-52-RF--30ac

23228 – (sold by Shiloh Relics)
http://www.shilohrelics.com/cgi-bin/Display_Item.asp?103677

23487 – (sold at $2750 at GunsAmerica)
http://www.gunsamerica.com/963137463/1860_Spencer_56_56_Army_Rifle.htm

23686 – claimed to be ID'd to PA Vol. Inf. (priced at $3895) on dealer table at Chickamauga Civil War Show, 2010

23712 – (priced at $4350) on dealer table at Chickamauga Civil War Show, 2010

23849 – (sold by Horse Soldier for $3950)
http://www.horsesoldier.com/products/firearms/longarms/6383

23866 – (priced at $2950 by Dave Taylor Civil War Antiques)
No link

[Herbert]

I can not find the photos of the rifle

[ndnchf]

pvt greg - I agree, the twist does seem odd.  I wasn't sure if it is ok to post a link to it.  If not, Two Flints feel free to delte it.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=364516966

[ndnchf]

A quick google search located two other infantry rifles with DST.

http://www.rockislandauction.com/viewitem/aid/1020/lid/1071

http://www.icollector.com/Spencer-Repeating-Rifle-with-Double-Set-Triggers_i15313429

From the photos, the triggers appear the same.  Interesting...

[Herbert]

Going by the serial number(23215) all ads are for the same rifle.Still a interesting rifle my thought is that it is a Sprinfield repaired rifle(upgraded to 1865 spects)then later on the leaver and trigger were modified,I have seen very simular modifed Spencers to sporting rifles with the double set trigger and bent lever that look almost identical in the way the double set trigger is fitted.The work to me is not up to the standard of either the Spencer or Sprinfield factorys

[ndnchf]

Well, that would explain why they all look so similar

Its an interesting piece and leads one to speculate whether the factory every made a DST version, maybe for a presentation model or military trials. 

[Snakeeater]

A cursory glance of Marcot's book features only one rifle with a DST (page 149). Earlier on page 113, Marcot alludes to an optional "single set trigger" that cost an additional $5. I would agree that the DST modification was probably done last but that's only because the triigger-plate had previously been modified for the Stabler device, which was afterwards removed. They even cut off the head of the projecting screw stop with the shaft filling the hole.

Below is a link for a Spencer sporting rifle with DST:

http://www.gunsinternational.com/Spencer-Sporting-Rifle-AL3411-.cfm?gun_id=100357858

[Arizona Trooper]

The 23-24000 and 28000 serial numbers don't show up in SRS because they were rifles bought by Massachusetts. As state property, their serial numbers never made it to the National Archives, so Frank Mallory never found them. At the end of the war, a lot of those rifles were bought by the men who carried them. 

[Herbert]

I still have a problem with the twist rate as I eyeball it.  Could be a later re-barrel.  I'd love to see what Herbert has to say.

To me the twist rate looks right for a civil war 56-56 Spencer rifle,the barrel is 30 inches long and to me the rifling does  compleet about 2/3 twist in its lenth for a 1 in 48 twist rate.On the other hand it has not been relined by Springfield either,so without seeing the opening at the top op the frame I can not say for sure weather it has been upgraded at Sprinfield,it does have a 1865 magizine tube and hammer but I can not make out weather the lower block has been cut for the Stabler cutt-off.To me it is a interesting post war conversion done by a good gunsmith and would be the sort of rifle that I would buy,I do like the Spencer sporters and conversions a bit more than the straight military modles

[Snakeeater]

The second photo showing the forward "set trigger" shows the slotted lower block for the Stabler device.

[Herbert]

The second photo showing the forward "set trigger" shows the slotted lower block for the Stabler device.

That wat it looks like to me to,though the photo is too dark to me to be certain,it is the 6 groove barrel that makes me wonder weather it has been through the Sprinfield re-furb,though some went trough this upgrade without the barrels being re-lined acording to Marcot

[Snakeeater]

According to Marcot, one of the distinguishing features of the Spencers that were repaired and refurbished by Springfield Armory is that only those in .52-cal (i.e. .56-.56) were bored out and re-lined to .50-cal with 3-groove rifling, while the M1865 carbines in .50-cal (i.e. 56-.50) were allowed to retain their original 6-groove rifling. All were modified for the Stabler cut-off device. This rifle is so peculiar because it has so many of the M1865 features that would have been added had it been refurbished, yet, the two features it should not have retained, its original .52-cal bore with 6-groove rifling, remain?

[Herbert]

Marcot does say on page 120 of my Spencer book under (recognizing Spencer Carbines repatred at Sprinfield armory) that some Spencer carbines repaired at Sprinfielf Armory retained their original 6-groove barrels and were not relined,They bear the ESA cartouches.Even though Sprinfield only repaired 1215  modle 1860 rifles I was thinking this also would have aplied to some rifles ,I have never personly viwed a 6 groove Sprinfield Spencer repaired rifle in either carbine or rifle configeration but I have found Marcots reserch very good