Richards II

Crow Choker · October 27, 2010, 01:31:46 PM

I know this topic has been 'hashed over' sometime back, but was wondering what the lastest 'skinney' is on them. Am tossing around in 'my need to aquire' a Cimarron Richards II (44 Colt or 44 Spec) to be a partner with my 44 Open Top. Previous posts have expressed past problems with sharp firing pins, firing pin hole in frame to small, and cracked barrels in the cut-out area(seems to be with 45 Colt calibers). Have found a dealer with a 'very' good price on one, but am wondering if Uberti/Cimarron worked out the problems. Have read that problems I listed were to units previously made several years ago, but still wondering. $:-\$ Has anyone purchased one in the last six months or so?

Abilene · October 27, 2010, 05:20:44 PM

The firing pins in all of the Richards-Masons and Type II Richards are pretty sharp. If they pierce primers, carefully stone it down a bit and/or put in a lighter mainspring. The firing pins in the conversions are different than the OT's and don't bend; you should not have to replace it. Avoid dry-firing without snapcaps as that can tend to raise a burr in front of the FP hole. One thing I would check on the gun in question: see if the conversion ring is tight. If you can wiggle it back in forth with your fingers then it needs work. Good luck.

Crow Choker · October 28, 2010, 01:31:10 PM

If the firing pin problem is still an ongoing problem with the Richards II or all the conversions, why hasn't Uberti fixed it or Mike Harvey at Cimarron told them of the problems and said "Fix it"? The gun I would be buying would be one bought sight unseen until in my hands.

Abilene · October 28, 2010, 02:45:34 PM

Why? This is my opinion:
It is a minimal problem. Not many complaints. In my experience, only Federal primers were pierced. The guns shot fine even with pierced primers (I dulled the FP's anyway). Easy to fix if you want to fix it. The reason I even brought up FP's is that you asked about it.

On the other hand, Opentop firing pins not only pierced primers but some tended to bend as well. Serious shooters often replaced them with aftermarket FP's from the Smith Shop. It took quite a while, but Uberti finally started changing the shape of the Opentop FP's to a more conical type. I expect they had a large inventory of the shrarp FP's that they didn't want to waste.

Since you don't have a chance to handle this particular conversion before ordering it, I would ask the dealer to verify that the conversion ring is not loose. This was an issue on some of the earliest Type II's from Uberti.

Crow Choker · October 28, 2010, 05:12:19 PM

Thank you for the input Abilene-I'll have to ask about the dealer about the ring. Was going to get the Richards II at the time I got the Open Top, but the OT won out. The strange sickness called 'need to aquire' still hasn't left me-want to get before any more price increases alot are saying are around the corner.

Abilene · October 28, 2010, 06:47:00 PM

"need to acquire" - ah, yes. I have a Richards II on my "list". .44 spcl since I already shoot that caliber (although I am slowly collecting .44 Colt brass "just because"). But there are several other things a little higher up on that list, so it may take a while. That's okay, got enough toys to keep me distracted. And patience is a virtue.

Coffinmaker · October 29, 2010, 08:25:45 AM

Patience be dammed!! Abilene, just go out and get a pair!! I really like mine. Also, mine are .44s so I can shoot .44 Russian cases in them. Nice.

I haven't worked on a Type II in a while so I can't comment on the changes, if any, Uberti may have made in the guns. I would doubt the problems seen in the early guns were still an issue, aside from poking holes in primers. The main spring belongs under the back of a Dodge Ram pickup, rather than a handgun, so replacing that is durigure. I prefer "Lee's Gunsmithing Gunfighter" main springs because they don't stack under compression. Really nice guns.

Coffinmaker

Major 2 · October 29, 2010, 09:32:01 AM

I had, had one on order since Feb. of 2006...I first held one at the Shot Show in Jan. 07, but Charles said I could not buy that one

Waited the rest of that Spring & Summer (07) and was told just 60 more days several times....

Never did get one , But I did find and but two Type 1's a Kenny Howell and a USPFA and I got a Remington Forged Frame
conversion...which became available about the same time.... no issue with any of these....

I still want aType II, but alass it will a while

Crow Choker · January 18, 2011, 05:35:57 PM

Howdy All-----As an update to my inquiring about a Richards Type II/Transition Colt, I did aquire one in mid-December direct from Cimarron (via an FFL dealer) and I couldn't be happier than a raccoon in a sweetcorn patch in late July. I asked Cimarron to send one to my FFL dealer, picking it as if the Cimarron staffer was getting it for himself. Couldn't be more satisfied with wood/metal fit, bluing, case color, wood grain on grips, and action. Due to weather, Christmas, kids, grandkids, a nasty cold several for weekends, and working away from home since receiving it, I didn't get a chance to shoot it until today.
It was 10*F. out today here in northern Iowa, a brisk NW wind, but sunny. Bundled up in Carharts and wearing fingerless wool gloves, I did manage to shoot approx 25 rds of 44 Specials loaded with 5.0 grains of TrailBoss under a 200 g. cast Lee. The other rds fired were 44 Colt caliber, 50 rds with 25 grains of FF Goex BP and 50 rds with 25 grains of FFF Goex BP, both topped off with a 200 grain cast Mav-Dutchman. The 44 Colts were primed with Fed LP Mag primers, while the 44 Spec with Win LP. The 44 Spec's were lubed with SPG, the 44 Colts with DD's Pearl II.
Had a mighty fine time, 10* weather, cold fingers, and all. Most of the shooting was done at 30-40 ft, point shooting. Did some aimed back around 60', but I was able to perforate four empty plastic detergent bottles to the point that they will never hold any liquid any more. Used a big pile of snow as a back stop. When the snow melts in the spring, I can harvest the spent lead and all the rest that gets shot into it this winter. A bonus of living in snow country.
Very pleased with the gun, will make a fine companion to my '72 Open-Top in the same caliber. In my original post, I was concerned about reports Richards II's piercing primers, didn't have any. Very happy with the 'heater', hope for some nice days ahead to do some 'river bankin' taking the Richards, Open-Top, and maybe another for an outing. Wish you'd been here Jubal!
Yers, Crow Choker

Fox Creek Kid · January 18, 2011, 06:10:21 PM

I have a few of the Type II's and one thing that was absolutely mandatory on all was to have the forcing cones chamfered. Of course, I recommend this for ALL revolvers. Just to give you an idea how essential this is, on one of my Type II's it shot about 4 or 5" to the left at 10 yds. and high. After chamfering the forcing cone all shots were in the 10 ring at 10 yds. All shooting was with BP loads. Yes, it is that important on a revolver.