Dragoon loading lever latch on a Walker?

[rickk]

Is there any reason why I could not order the Uberti Dragoon loading lever and latch parts and install them on an Uberti Walker? Is it just a matter of cutting a dovetail (or tapping a hole) for the Barrel Stud it more complicated than that?

[Blackpowder Burn]

I have a Dragoon and was just looking at it.  The barrel stud is in a dovetail, so doesn't look to complicated for that part.  The loading lever would have to be modified by boring a hole into it for a spring, then the latch is put in front of the spring in a cross cut and a pin is across the lever in front of the latch to hold it in place.  That looks to be much more complicated.  A good machinist should be able to do the work fairly easily. 

However, why not just trade the Walker toward a Dragoon?  They're not that much smaller and still hold a lot of powder!

[rickk]

Thanks Aggie,

I was just hoping I could  swap the loading levers as well and avoid machine work, but I don't know if they are interchangeable or not.

I have a line on a low mileage Walker really cheap. The present owner is aggravated by the lever falling after every shot. I have no real need for either it or aggravation, but the price is right and if there is a clean way to keep the lever in place like the improved Dragoon latch it seems like it might be worth tinkering with.

I know there are other cures involving modifying the existing latch, but I was just wondering about the Dragoon latch as a different way.

[Shotgun Franklin]

I have heard from some Colt people that a loading latch was installed in the last of the Walkers made. I've never seen an original Walker with one. Anyone?

[rickk]

Franklin,

Now you are really getting me going !

You mean I might not be thinking about cobbling together a Frankenstein but actually making a repro of a rare reality?

[Shotgun Franklin]

I know that the falling loading lever was a problem from the start so it would only make sense that the problem was addressed fairly early. As the very next Colt had the lever it only seems logical that someone, maybe the factory, would have fixed the problem on some of the later Walkers. It'll take a guy with more knowledge than I have about very early Colt's to know.

[hellgate]

No need to create a monster. There's a simple solution! The following is a many times reposting of a repost for the latch problem that keeps coming up:
=======================================================================
To repost an answer from 1997 CAS-L: " File a small notch in the business end of the latch spring so there is a
small "step" that engages the loading lever. (Frank Leaman suggested this
approach years ago.)
Tex, SASS #4"

Frank Leaman is a genius and card shark/magician. I've met him. [Recently deceased, see last issue of the Cowboy Chronicle for his all too short obituary]
I've done this on both of my Uberti Walkers and neither has dropped a latch in about 5 matches I have shot them in since. The "step" is pretty touchy. If you make it too deep the latch won't come down at all and if there is too little step the fix won't work. The business end of the spring is rounded and you take a little off the upper end (toward the barrel) so when the spring snaps in place as the lever is lifted there is a more abrupt lip that it has to climb over for the rammer to come down. I bought an extra spring from Uberti before I got out the file.
Another suggestion is to lighten your loads to lessen recoil. If you insist on shooting heavy loads (50-55grs FFFg) if you are lucky all you will get is a crushed wedge that opens up the gap. You'll think your gun is really blasting but all you are getting is lost power blowing out the cylinder gap. New wedges will be in order. If you are unlucky, you will get the cylinder pin backing out of the frame or stretching of the wedge cutout. Lots of $$$ to fix. Drop the load down to 35-45grs.
Another way to reduce the recoil is to change to FFg powder. It is slower but has a smoother pressure peak.
A third suggestion is to hold the gun more firmly to prevent barrel lift from recoil. I'm not sure what effect that will actually have. If you DON'T grip the gun firmly the barrel tips right down due to the weight.
My Walker load is 44grs of FFg+lube wad+.454RB+grease on top. It's called a .44-44.
Hellgate

[Pettifogger]

You mean like the Whitneyville Dragoon?  A cross between a Walker and a Dragoon.

[rickk]

Yup... a Walker with a Dragoon barrel assembly, although my version would have the longer Walker barrel.

I did read on another board that the installation of the Dragoon lever and latch to Walkers is a commonly done deal. I haven't been told by anyone yet who has actually done it what the details of the conversion are.

It sure does look like a simple parts swap and the filing of a single dovetail slot.

[Noz]

The most common fix was a scrap of rag tied around the barrel. Loop it over the loading lever to hold it in place while firing. Works!
And is historically correct.

[Capt. Augustus]

If you want to see what they really did to Walkers go to

http://www.tgca.net/Parade_of_Walkers_2003.htm

[Shotgun Franklin]

So the vast majority had some kinda loading lever latch. Is there any way to find out if, or how many, of these were done by Colt? It did appear that most that did not have a latch were Military issue.

[rickk]

Looks like 3 from "D company" were retrofitted, as the barrel is the original Walker barrel with the original cutout for the original latch still showing. I guess D company was more "state of the art" or else lived longer... whichever came first.

So, what I want to do is a "normal" modification, not that I cared all that much about authenticity, but that ends any argument that might come up about it in the future and I can concentrate on the task at hand, which is finalizing the deal and ordering the necessary parts.

I had seen the collection before, but never had anything specific to look at in it. Thanks for reminding me about it Capt Augustus.

[Flint]

Rickk...  If you look at a Dragoon loading lever, you will see that it is a Walker lever with the end cut and a latch installed.  See the curved profile, it is not a straight cylinder like the 1851 Navy and such.  By the time you redid the Walker lever to accept a latch, it will be the same length as the Dragoon lever.  Just order a Dragoon lever (not the ram, which is longer) and the barrel stud and cut a dovetail in the barrel.  It was done to some originals.

[rickk]

Flint, that was my plan exactly. I am hoping that other than cutting the dovetail, the rest is a drop-in replacement? I am looking at the Uberti's btw.

[Driftwood Johnson]

I have heard from some Colt people that a loading latch was installed in the last of the Walkers made. I've never seen an original Walker with one. Anyone?

Howdy

First off, I am not an expert. But I do know there were only 1100 Walkers ever made. 1000 for the military sales and another 100 for the commercial market. I believe that all 1100 were made in 1847. That is a very short production run by any standards. It was common for Winchester to produce the same model for up to 50 years, and Colt produced many models for many years too.

If you look at the history of Colt's early models, he first produced the Paterson model in 1837. Various Paterson models were produced for a few years, but they were never very financially successful. Eventually Colt went out of business and went to several other enterprises while trying to scrape together enough money to try manufacturing firearms again. When he collaborated with Captain Walker on the design of what became the Walker Colt, it could be said that he went too far and made a gun that was too big to be practical. So rather than modify the Walker, he went directly to the Dragoon series. Shorter barrel, shorter cylinder, less powder capacity, less weight, and an improved method for keeping the loading lever from falling down.

My point is, and this is purely speculation, during the short production life of the Walker, I suspect they all left the factory pretty much the same, and improvements such as a latch for the loading lever came with the introduction of the Dragoons. Again, nothing but speculation on my part, but I suspect that any retrofitting of loading levers to Walkers was done after they had left the factory, either by Colt or other gunsmiths.

[will52100]

I'll second the filed notch in the loading leaver spring, I actualy have the parts to convert over to a dragoon style loading leaver, but after doing the spirng I didn't need too.  I may do it one day if I get bored, but I like the look and feel of the walker loading leaver, and with the notch on the spring they stay up, even with full power loads.

[Montana Slim]

Cleaning-up the notch (square/sharp edge and depth) along with other minor adjustments to the original parts sounds like the best aproach to me.

I see an advantage in loading comfort to the original rounded tip of the lever when loading, nothing to dig into your hand.

Regards,
Slim