Finally got one!

[Mako]

Hey Slim,
Happy New Year!

I agree with you if you're talking about wimpy wads like the "Wonder Wad" varieties.  But if you take a stiff piece of 1/8" felt from Dura Felt and then totally soak it in a good quality lube we all make from Bees Wax, Paraffin and Mutton Tallow or some other natural oil based source and you can get a wad that lubricates pretty well.  I have been using these wads for years with excellent results.  I get lube on the arbor, a grease star on the muzzle and the fouling remains soft.  In addition, the wad seems to help keep the fouling down by sweeping the bore each shot.

I will put lube on the balls as you described when forced to.  I had to do so recently when I forgot to refill my shooting box wad container before a match and realized I would come up short for the number of stages.  After a quick count I determined I could use wads in four chambers on each pistol for all of the stages and use some lube I had in a tin to cover the first chamber on each cylinder.

The guns were a bit greasier than usual and I had to wipe them even more between stages.  The reason I wanted it on the first chamber on each pistol is that I have found the blast from the previous chambers melts the lube or anything else at the front of the unfired chambers.  Before I went to wads (which is now a long time ago) shooting was considerably messier.  I find the wads are no messier to use than the EPP-UG bullets where I will get some lube on my hands from handling the bullets.

Before I ran across the source for the felt which has probably now been posted on every board that has a BP forum I was using hat felt and stacking two wads.

Below are what my wads look like.  The three on the right in both pictures are the as punched wads, the ones on the left are saturated in lube.  If you look closely you can see the lube has fully inundated the wad and the lube is even caked on the surface.

Happy New Year to all,
Mako

[Mad_Dog]

When yer ready to shoot that front stuffer without all the bother of wads, lube cookies and over ball smears, take a good long look at the EPP-UG bullets.  They emulate RB performance but eliminate the lube bother.  Simply lube/size them just like you would do with any cartridge bp bullet and take them to the match in snap cap vials.  Simply dump in powder and seat the lube/sized bullet and yer good to go.

For those of us who haven't lubed/sized a cartridge bp bullet before, but are interested in these cap-and-"ball" bullets... what exactly is involved in sizing them?  Could one simply seat them as usual and let the cylinder shave the excess, or is there enough excess that it needs to be sized with some sort of device before you stick it in the cylinder?

-Mad Dog

[Mako]

Mad Dog,
They are supposed to cast at a diameter of .455, but sometime a bit under.  I have shot 5 from a sample pack that were not sized, I filled the groove with bore butter at loading.  Those still fit, but I need tell you that I use an off pistol loader instead of the barrel mounted loading lever and plunger.  I'm sure you could have seated them with the pistol mounted arrangement.

I have used EPP-UG bullets that were lubed and sized that I believe came from Springfield Slim.  They were given to me so I am not positive, but I know the pard who gave them to me uses bullets from Springfield Slim.  One of the main reasons to run them through the lubrisizer is to lubricate them, which is probably why Dick mentioned it. 

I didn't respond just because I have used the bullet in question, but because I have done what you asked about.  I have very limited experience experience (5 bullets) with unsized bullets, but it is some experience.

Perhaps Dick or others will fill you in a bit better on the sizing requirements.  I'd be willing to bet there might be one or more people who cast their own and just pan lube them.

Regards,
Mako

[Drayton Calhoun]

A personal observation on brass frames. My advice is if the .451 shaves a good ring of lead off, use it. If the .454 is real hard to seat, the loading itself is causing stress on the brass frame, in my opinion, as bad or worse than shooting full power loads in it. Twenty to twenty-five grains of FF or FFF should be more than adequate without undue stress on the frame.

[Mad_Dog]

One of the main reasons to run them through the lubrisizer is to lubricate them, which is probably why Dick mentioned it. 

Cool. I had figured on pan-lubing them... of course its all moot till I actually get my pistol (looked at one at the gun store with my wife yesterday... I was showing her how you would load it and she said "I can see why an engineer would like that gun".  I'll go check out springfield slim too... might make sense to try some before jumping into the casting game!

-Mad-Dog

[Dick Dastardly]

The driving bands on the EPP-UG bullets are small enough that they easily size to fit when pan lubed only.  This is true for most fairly soft alloys including wheel weight metal.  Of course, they can be cast from dead soft lead and then will easily seat with the gun rammer.

The main purpose for lube/sizing the EPP-UG was to install the lube.  I size them for a nice snug interference fit on my ROAs and they never back out under recoil with even the strongest bp loads possible.  The lube is held captive in the chamber with the driving bands and it is released only when that chamber is fired.  This captive lube band further assists the two driving bands to assure that there won't be a chain fire from the cylinder face end.

I've found this bullet to be extremely accurate from my C&B guns.  It's also very accurate from my Thompson Center 45 Cal Seneca front stuffer rifle.  Further, it shoots extremely well when loaded in cartridges.  I shot it at two different annual matches last season and shot them CLEAN.  I've got the feather to prove it.

DD-DLoS

[Lucky R. K.]

I have shot something over 2,000 rounds through my ROA'S and 1858 Remington's in the past year or so.  All the bullets were from DD's little 150 grain Pecos Pete bullet mould and lubed by a Lyman lubersizer.  In my opinion there is no better bullet for a cap & ball gun.

If you have a lubersizer use about a .457 die to lube the bullet and go shoot.  You don't have to worry about wads, Crisco, bear grease or anything else.  Pour in the powder seat the bullet, cap and shoot.  A lot less fuss and equipment to keep up with.

I made a tapered lubersizer die that sizes the base band about .435 and leaves the top band alone at about .457.  This allows me to use the bullet in both my .44's and .45's.  The bullet performs very well in both.

I know there are people out there who prefer the traditional way of loading and shooting cap & ball guns and I certainly respect that.  But, if you are shooting these pistols in CAS matches you can really speed up your loading time and reduce hassles by using these bullets.

I didn't mean for this to sound like a commercial for Dick and his bullets but I really like them.

Lucky 

[Dick Dastardly]

A good friend of mine and a fine pard shoots EPP-UGs in his open tops.  The dang chambers are a mite tight to fit the rebate, so he loads 'em upside down.  They shoot fine that way and he can use them in his other guns without modification.  Talk about versatile. . .

DD-DLoS

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

DD;  I tried the upside down trick. ONCE.  The accuracy was blah!  I now have a loading stand, so I will try it again.