There's a prototype for everything!

Started by River City John, November 21, 2010, 02:02:08 PM

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River City John



For years we have been poo-poohing the "John Ford"-inspired slant on history and uniform style as inaccurate.

I was glancing through the back pages of another website (thanks to Shotgun Steve) and ran across this stereoview. I was immediately struck by the officer on the far right, and realized he had sewn his rank bars on the shoulders of a blue pullover shirt with the three button placket, and has his belt cinched around the waist with the shirt tails out, as worn in native Southwest Indian style.

I guess there is never something as far fetched that can't be found in the historical record.

RCJ

"I was born by the river in a little tent, and just like the river I've been running ever since." - Sam Cooke
"He who will not look backward with reverence, will not look forward with hope." - Edmund Burke
". . .freedom is not everything or the only thing, perhaps we will put that discovery behind us and comprehend, before it's too late, that without freedom all else is nothing."- G. Warren Nutter
NCOWS #L146
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Capt. Montgomery Little

RCJ,  Those appear to be photos of Burnside and some of his staff at Antietam/Sharpsburg.  Tough day for ol' Ambrose.

River City John

It is Gen.Ambrose Burnside himself, but as to dating, it's anyone's guess.
Could also be when what became the IXth Corps was down in the Carolinas. And might explain the extreme 'light field wear' nature of that shirt as blouse. Hilton's Head, SC pics show the Army wearing any number of non-regulation clothing and camp wear.

RCJ
"I was born by the river in a little tent, and just like the river I've been running ever since." - Sam Cooke
"He who will not look backward with reverence, will not look forward with hope." - Edmund Burke
". . .freedom is not everything or the only thing, perhaps we will put that discovery behind us and comprehend, before it's too late, that without freedom all else is nothing."- G. Warren Nutter
NCOWS #L146
GAF #275

JimBob

I believe that type of shirt or blouse was peculiar to some Rhode Island units.You see it in pictures early in the war of RI units.

After a little looking that is called a Rhode Island or Burnside Blouse.There were two different styles,one single breasted and the other double breasted.Reportedly designed by Burnside which is possible as he was a tailor at one time.

Delmonico

Quote from: JimBob on November 21, 2010, 06:57:12 PM
Reportedly designed by Burnside which is possible as he was a tailor at one time.

I hope he was a better tailor than he was a general. ;D
Mongrel Historian


Always get the water for the coffee upstream from the herd.

Ab Ovo Usque ad Mala

The time has passed so quick, the years all run together now.

Wild Billy Potts

Definately a Burnside Blouse. RCJ is correct in his observations about Civil War armies looking less and less regulation as the war went forward. I forget which general stated that the longer the war lasted the less his army looked like soldiers and more like common laborers.

Pitspitr

Quote from: River City John on November 21, 2010, 02:02:08 PM


For years we have been poo-poohing the "John Ford"-inspired slant on history...

And as far as his slant on history, many of his "And the cavalry rode in at the last minute to save the day" films were loosely based on the popular Capt./General Charles King novels...which were loosely based on actual events.
I remain, Your Ob'd Servant,
Jerry M. "Pitspitr" Davenport
(Bvt.)Brigadier General Commanding,
Grand Army of the Frontier
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Hangtown Frye

Wearing an overshirt outside of the trousers and belted around with the sabre belt was pretty standard prior to the Civil War while campaigning on the frontier. In the 1850's there are innumerable references to this fashion being followed by soldiers and civilians alike.  There is a great quote from a young Lieutenant at Fort Clark, Texas noting how all of his men are wearing blue overshirts belted around, and slouch hats rather than the regulation uniform.  There were several attempts both before and after the war to introduce blouses based upon this idea, with pleated fronts, etc., but they just didn't seem to catch on or work out.  Mighty comfortable though, especially when compared to the regulation coat or jacket as issued, which was a pretty heavily "constructed" garment.

Cheers!

Gordon

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