Bounty hunters

Uncle Stinky · December 23, 2009, 08:17:04 PM

Without mentioning the infamous Tom Horn who were the most notable bounty hunters of the Old West era? I'm not talking about full time employees of a company like Pinkerton. I am trying to find names, histories, and stories of individuals who worked the trade. Perhaps there are books out there that cover this subject that someone might suggest as New Year's reading.
Thanks in advance.

Stinky

Delmonico · December 23, 2009, 08:36:25 PM

Most of the famous lawmen. Suplemented their income.

Ozark Tracker · December 23, 2009, 08:45:27 PM

this is one of my favorite's, Bass Reeves was a U.S. Deputy Marshall for Judge Parker at Ft. Smith, the book is the legend of Bass Reeves.

here's a small book review. I used to hear a lot of stories about him when I lived over at Muskogee, big picture of him hanging in the Muskogee city corut house. a lot of the older policemen knew a lot of stories about him.

http://ezinearticles.com/?Book-Review---The-Legend-of-Bass-Reeves&id=518867

The historic legend of Bass Reeves really began when he was fifty-one. The US government needed someone familiar with the Indian Territory to be a marshall and they recruited Bass Reeves. From 1862 until 1907 Bass Reeves was a US Marshall bringing in fugitives. In 1907, the town of Muskogee asked eighty-one year old Bass Reeves to be the town constable. His story is exciting and worthy of investigation.

Daniel Nighteyes · December 23, 2009, 09:41:09 PM

Trivia question: What characteristic made Bass Reeves "different" from modern-day characterizations of US Marshals and Deputy Marshals? (Ozark Tracker, don't answer 'cause you probably know this quite well.)

Don Nix · December 23, 2009, 10:25:18 PM

Black

Roscoe Coles · December 24, 2009, 12:12:16 AM

I have always had an impression that the "bounty hunter" is really a dramatic construction from the movies. I am sure that lawmen and others arrested people and collected the reward, but the only private individuals (IE non law enforcement officers) that I have ever read did this for a living were folks like the Pinkertons, who were basically mercenaries hired out to big companies to hunt people down, or kill them, when local law enforcement was unwilling or on the side of the folks being pursued. Charley Saringo's book (A Cowboy Detective, if I remember right) is the best account of a Pinkerton man working in the west (rather than strike breaking or strong arming in the east). Admittedly, the Pinkertons did have a role to play in fighting crime that was simply too big for a single jurisdiction, but taken as a whole, they did some very despicable things (probably the most famous, but surely not the worst was bombing Jessie James' mothers house with the family asleep inside, killing her young son, maiming his mother's arm and wounding everyone else in the house). In their defense, they only used the bomb after the first incendiary device they threw in the house failed to light it on fire! In their strike breaking activities they basically murdered people. All in all, the Pinkertons are not a bright spot in the history of American law enforcement.

WaddWatsonEllis · December 24, 2009, 01:55:01 AM

Roscoe,

Another besmirched Pinkerton splotch is that they (they Union) used them as agents of espionage, and I have read that their inflated Confederate troop reports kept the Union from being as agressive as they should have been. The same writer stated that their inflated Confederate numbers were responsible for the Civil War/War of the Southern Seccession (depending on who you talk to ... *S*)

Roscoe, I know you have read more on this than I and would benefit from your thoughts on this ....

Major 2 · December 24, 2009, 07:23:04 AM

Quote from: Don Nix on December 23, 2009, 10:25:18 PM
Black

that and a son of slaves maybe ?

He also brought in his own son, wanted for Murder...

Roscoe Coles · December 24, 2009, 01:03:29 PM

Quote from: WaddWatsonEllis on December 24, 2009, 01:55:01 AM
Roscoe,

Another besmirched Pinkerton splotch is that they (they Union) used them as agents of espionage, and I have read that their inflated Confederate troop reports kept the Union from being as agressive as they should have been. The same writer stated that their inflated Confederate numbers were responsible for the Civil War/War of the Southern Seccession (depending on who you talk to ... *S*)

Roscoe, I know you have read more on this than I and would benefit from your thoughts on this ....

I have not read extensively on this, but I doubt that you can lay the Civil War at the doorstep of Alan Pinkerton. I have a historian friend that claims that the information being supplied by the Pinkertons to George McClellan played an important part in McClellan's poor showing in the peninsular campaign in 1862 (the high, and entirely incorrect, estimates of Confederate troop strength feeding McClellan's caution). As for the rest, I couldn't really say.

I will modify my comments on the Pinkertons by pointing out the majority of their strike breaking activities did not happen until after Alan Pinkerton's death in 1884. It was not until the 1890s that they became heavily involved in strike breaking activity, though the bombing of the James house happened in 1875, nine years before Pinkerton died.

By far the most violent detective agency (at least during the strike breaking era) was the Baldwin-Phelps Detective Agency (frequently called the Baldwin-Felts Detective Agency). Among other things, they participated in the Ludlow Massacre, where 45 people, 11 of them children, were killed by the Colorado National Guard when the opened up on a striker's camp with machine guns in 1914. The Baldwin-Phelps detectives had been sniping into the camp for some time before the massacre and they had an armored car with a machinegun, which they drove through the striker's camp to threaten and intimidate the strikers. After the massacre, the Baldwin-Phelps detectives, and others, went into the camp and lit it on fire, killing two women and eleven children who were hiding in one of the tents. They also murdered three men they captured as they went through the camp.

Daniel Nighteyes · December 24, 2009, 01:38:11 PM

Quote from: Major 2 on December 24, 2009, 07:23:04 AM
that and a son of slaves maybe ?

He also brought in his own son, wanted for Murder...

He was black, and the son of slaves. In fact, in his boyhood he was a slave himself, and probably a runaway. As I recall, he was also the first black Deputy Marshal west of the Mississippi. Largely due to the time he spent among the Creek and Seminole as a youth and young man, he was able to operate in parts of the Nations where white men couldn't.

I hadn't heard the part about him bringing in his own son.

Shotgun Franklin · December 24, 2009, 04:59:00 PM

The Pinks, the Railroads and Cattlemen's Associations hired lots of guys with experience including Law Officers between jobs. There weren't real guide llines as what they should do to carry out the job. Some did whatever it took, others did honorable work. It was a tough time, they hunted tough men and many of'm were killed 'on the job'. I've never read of what we'd now consider a 'Bounty Hunter' except for many the 'Scalp Hunters'. Tom Horn killed people but from what I've read he did it while working for some sort of Association or another. Back then, and up until fairly recent times, Peace Officers could collect the Reward on Ciminals he brought in. That's been changed by law, at least in Texas an Officer is not allowed to collect a 'reward'. I've arrested several guys under circumstances where an civilian would draw a reward but because I was a LEO on duty it was just part of the job.

WaddWatsonEllis · December 25, 2009, 04:30:32 PM

Roscoe Coles,

The overstatement was a typo on my part. The source that I read actually said that the Civil War lasted two years longer than it should have due to the Pinkerton over-rating of Confederate troop strength in the first several years of the war ...

But I agree, no one point can be blamed for the Civil War ...

And I now turn this thread back to the subject about which it was started ....

kflach · December 30, 2009, 11:14:58 AM

According to "Hell's Half Acre" by Richard F. Selcer (about the Hell's Half Acre located in Ft. Worth, Texas) it wasn't uncommon for lawmen to get paid 'performance bonuses' (my terminology) based on number of people caught doing specific things. The famous Timothy "Longhair" Courtright (among others) worked under this kind of pay system and finally got unhappy with the city because they weren't very good about timely payment.

I found the book to be quite interesting. Here's a review:
http://texana.texascooking.com/books/hellshalfacre.htm

Sorry about the thread drift...

Texas Lawdog · December 31, 2009, 09:38:37 AM

Kflach, Wages for being a Cop ain't never been the best anyway. Part-time jobs were part of my life style during my 39 years.

kflach · December 31, 2009, 10:38:54 AM

Wages for the people that serve - cops, firefighters, teachers - are never enough. Wages for the people that entertain and those that abuse (politicians & big corporate executives) are always too high.

If I ruled the world I'd change that, but so far I've only managed to get one vote.

PABLO DEL NORTE · March 26, 2010, 07:23:33 AM

Quote from: Ozark Tracker on December 23, 2009, 08:45:27 PM
this is one of my favorite's, Bass Reeves was a U.S. Deputy Marshall for Judge Parker at Ft. Smith, the book is the legend of Bass Reeves.

here's a small book review. I used to hear a lot of stories about him when I lived over at Muskogee, big picture of him hanging in the Muskogee city corut house. a lot of the older policemen knew a lot of stories about him.

http://ezinearticles.com/?Book-Review---The-Legend-of-Bass-Reeves&id=518867

The historic legend of Bass Reeves really began when he was fifty-one. The US government needed someone familiar with the Indian Territory to be a marshall and they recruited Bass Reeves. From 1862 until 1907 Bass Reeves was a US Marshall bringing in fugitives. In 1907, the town of Muskogee asked eighty-one year old Bass Reeves to be the town constable. His story is exciting and worthy of investigation.

I FIGGER IT'S 'BOUT TIME THEY MADE A MOVIE ABOUT BASS REEVES. HE WAS ONE OF THE OLD WEST'S MOST PROFICIENT LAWMEN & UTTERLY FEARED BY THE BAD GUYS 'CUZ THEY KNEW HE WOULDN'T QUIT

Books OToole · March 26, 2010, 10:02:53 AM

Quote from: PABLO DEL NORTE on March 26, 2010, 07:23:33 AM
I FIGGER IT'S 'BOUT TIME THEY MADE A MOVIE ABOUT BASS REEVES. HE WAS ONE OF THE OLD WEST'S MOST PROFICIENT LAWMEN & UTTERLY FEARED BY THE BAD GUYS 'CUZ THEY KNEW HE WOULDN'T QUIT

I watched an interveiw with Morgan Freeman and he wants to do a Bass Reeves movie. He hasn't recieved a script that he likes yet.

Books

PABLO DEL NORTE · March 26, 2010, 11:31:56 AM

HOPEFULLY THEY CAN CLINT EASTWOOD TO DIRECT THE THING!!

Daniel Nighteyes · March 26, 2010, 02:46:32 PM

Quote from: Books OToole on March 26, 2010, 10:02:53 AM
I watched an interveiw with Morgan Freeman and he wants to do a Bass Reeves movie. He hasn't recieved a script that he likes yet.

He'd make a good Bass Reeves. From all I have read, Bass was an even-tempered sort of fellow -- all business and no bellow.

And +1 on Clint Eastwood as the Director!

Drayton Calhoun · October 10, 2010, 06:08:43 PM

As was stated above, lawmen, then and now, didn't get paid anywhere near enough for the job. They had to suppliment their income some way. Sad situation. Folks that put their butts on the line, day in and day out get lousy pay, while the people that tell them they aren't doing their job right even though they have never done it and get paid twice as much.