Motor Oil

[Cemetery]

I was at a muzzleshop earlier this year inquiring about lubes.....

Someone recommended synthetic motor oil since it's designed for extreme heat tolerances.

Anybody ever try this?

[Steel Horse Bailey]

A lot of shooters here have tried various synthetic lubes for various uses, usually (always that I can remember) with good results.  I don't know first hand for sure - I have lots of traditional stuff, but I'm not sure about synthetics.

One of the best gun oils I've tried is Lucas Gun Oil.  I never noticed if it's synthetic, but it's red, so maybe ...

I liked it VERY much, but I then tried an experiment.  You know the white stuff at the bottom of a bottle of BreakFree?  It's Teflon.  You MUST shake before using or you won't get the full lube properties of the Teflon, which is - I believe - the slipperiest substance known, or at least right near the top.  Well, I filtered a small amount of Teflon from my quantities of B/F, and added it to 2 ounces of the Lucas.  It's AWESOME!  I could literally feel  a difference in the trigger-pull on my AWA Longhorn.  It was EXCELLENT at 3.25 lbs. (measured with my T/P scale) with only B/F or black gun grease or a combination of the two, and now it's even better!  It gave the feel of lightening the trigger pull about a pound!

[john boy]

Cemetery, this statement on Wikipedia would give me caution about using synthetic motor oil -

Synthetics do not hold lead in suspension as well as mineral oil, thus caution is advised when the engine is run on leaded fuel.[citation needed] As an example, leaded fuel is still commonly used in aviation (avgas).[17]

Aged wisdom over the many decades has been to use non petroleum based ingredients when shooting original gunpowder to control fouling.  Black powder and petroleum based products will create a varnish in the bore.  And if synthetic oil was a winner, you would hear all the ranked BPCR shooters using it in their lubes.  Needless to say - Not one word about it's attributes!

[fourfingersofdeath]

Cemetery, this statement on Wikipedia would give me caution about using synthetic motor oil - Aged wisdom over the many decades has been to use non petroleum based ingredients when shooting original gunpowder to control fouling.  Black powder and petroleum based products will create a varnish in the bore.  And if synthetic oil was a winner, you would hear all the ranked BPCR shooters using it in their lubes.  Needless to say - Not one word about it's attributes!

That sounds very reasonable, buttttttttttttt, BPCR shooters don't shoot revolvers or lever guns with lots of moving parts and linkages, etc and they wouldn't have a need for much other than basic lubrication I'm thinking.

[Dick Dastardly]

I'm thinkn' we're talkin' about two different missions for lube here.  Bore lube and working parts lube.  A gun's working innards don't get as HOT as the bore does and the reasons for lube differ there.  For moving parts you want a lube that won't congeal in cold weather or gum up in hot weather.  For bullet lube you want a lube that will stay put till the round is fired and then immediately melt, splash and wash the bore.

So, with this in mind, I developed Pearl Lube-II bullet lube.  It stays put, melts real quick, splashes good and washes the bore.  Big Lube®LLC bullets I've recovered have NO TRACE of lube left on them.  It was ALL melted and splashed in the gun.  The muzzle was ALWAYS wet even with the longest rifle barrels.

When I'm lubricating the innards of my guns after cleaning them I've found good use for Ballistol and also Boeshield T-9.  These are NOT good bullet lubes but they are fine lube and rust protectors for my gun's working parts.

Two different lubes for two different missions.

DD-DLoS

[Steel Horse Bailey]

John-Boy is right - the Petroleum lubes can help mess up a bore with a coating.   I NEVER use anything but natural lubes down the BORE of my BP guns.  Away from the bore and the high temps of the chambers is where I use the oil and greases that I mentioned before.

During my years in the Army, we were told repeatedly (and I did much of the telling, after I got rank) NOT to generously lube the chambers and bores of our machine guns, rifles & pistols, and the 105mm then later 120mm guns.  Give 'em a good lubing with oil, then wipe it off ... never had any problems with several millions of small-arms rounds and several thousand main-gun rounds.  (I was in a testing unit for 4 1/2 years and we fired MANY more rounds than the normal tank crewmen would.)

Also, to verify the info, the M1 series of tanks uses a gas-turbine engine.  The RPM range of the Lycoming turbine was over 20,000  RPM at idle and nearer 35,000 RPM at full power.  We used a very expensive synthetic oil for engine lubrication because petroleum lubes would have crystallized and burnt off long before the engine would reach idle speed!  By the way, in a pinch, the Turboshaft Oil (as it was called) made a pretty good substitute for gun oil - 'cept down the bore, which still got lubed then wiped clean before firing.

[john boy]

I've found good use for Ballistol and also Boeshield T-9.  These are NOT good bullet lubes but they are fine lube and rust protectors for my gun's working parts.

I offer that Eezox is a much better rust preventative than any of the other products on the market ... http://www.eezox.com/gun-care.html
To back up it's rust prevention, take a look ... http://www.6mmbr.com/corrosiontest.html
And here are the more severe tests I performed ... http://www.theopenrange.net/forum/index.php?topic=5457.0
http://www.theopenrange.net/forum/index.php?topic=6291.0

As for the stuff being a cleaner and lube of moving parts ... send a post to my workhorse M1992.  The finger lever goes up and down with the shooter's little finger!  As for cleaning, the most stubborn bore I have encountered was on a BPC rifle.  It cleaned the crud up nicely.  Might add, for a cleaner and lube of BP firearms, give Mystery Oil a try also. 

[Montana Slim]

Interesting tests.....Have to ask why they're using 43 hours as their test duration(?)

It must tickle someone's fancy...standard salt-fog for oiled, but otherwise bare steel is a 24 hour test....The next increment would be 48 hours. So, you may see my curiosity at choosing 43 hours.

Would also be interesting to see their test setup to see if it conforms to standards.

BTW, I work with folks who are considered leading experts in the field of corrosion...with an empasis on weapons (large & small).

Any lube that is thick & stays put (tacky) will be decent as a rust preventative..however, it depends on your enviroment. In my enviroment, WD-40 works fine to displace moisture, dissolve accumated lubes and protect metal during the shooting season. I thoughly clean & coat with a thin film of CLP for those months a firearm will not be used. Ballistol? I find it useful for lubricating hammers, cylinder pins & such for touch-up during shooting sessions, particularly when the air is very dry. I haven't found any issues from firing BP through bores having light coats of petroleum based lubes...but I only use natural ingredients in my bullet lube (& lots of it).

Regards,
Slim

[Deadeye Dick]

Some more testing from previous posts in this forum.
http://www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_experiments/corrosion/corrosion2.html
Looks like Eez ox, Ballistol, and Lehighs are the best of the bunch. I use Ballistol with excellent results. Haven't tried Eez ox or Lehighs.
Deadeye Dick

[Percussion Pete]

John-Boy is right - the Petroleum lubes can help mess up a bore with a coating.   I NEVER use anything but natural lubes down the BORE of my BP guns.  Away from the bore and the high temps of the chambers is where I use the oil and greases that I mentioned before.

During my years in the Army, we were told repeatedly (and I did much of the telling, after I got rank) NOT to generously lube the chambers and bores of our machine guns, rifles & pistols, and the 105mm then later 120mm guns.  Give 'em a good lubing with oil, then wipe it off ... never had any problems with several millions of small-arms rounds and several thousand main-gun rounds.  (I was in a testing unit for 4 1/2 years and we fired MANY more rounds than the normal tank crewmen would.)

Also, to verify the info, the M1 series of tanks uses a gas-turbine engine.  The RPM range of the Lycoming turbine was over 20,000  RPM at idle and nearer 35,000 RPM at full power.  We used a very expensive synthetic oil for engine lubrication because petroleum lubes would have crystallized and burnt off long before the engine would reach idle speed!  By the way, in a pinch, the Turboshaft Oil (as it was called) made a pretty good substitute for gun oil - 'cept down the bore, which still got lubed then wiped clean before firing.

I'm guessing you're not old enough to be using BP in the Army. 

[john boy]

Dick, sad to say, the best ever BP cleaner and barrel conditioner but not known as a good rust preventive ... Lehigh Valley Lube, has gone the way of the passenger pigeons.  One of the few patented lubes, made by 2 fellas in Rochester, NY and was used by a multitude of muzzleloader shooters.  Unfortunately, one of the gents died and the other gave up making the lube but still holds the patent.  Here is it's 1st Cousin ...

Shenandoah Valley Lube #DLR5557 $9.95
Cleans while you shoot!
Shenandoah Valley Lube is a black powder shooting patch lubricant,
designed to completely eliminate the need for barrel cleaning between
shots regardless of load size, depth of rifling, or weather conditions.
(Non Petroleum Based, Direct replacement for Lehigh Valley Lube)

I was put onto it by Chuck Dixon, owner of Dixon's Muzzleloading Shop who swears by it and is a frequent top ranked ML shooter.  Chuck is also a close friend of Dutch Bill.  Have been using it on and off for about 2 years.  No definitive tests done using it though in my BPCR's as a conditioner but it is a good BP cleaner

[Steel Horse Bailey]

I'm guessing you're not old enough to be using BP in the Army. 

Thank you Sir!  No - our bullet launchers use mostly double-base and in the case of tank Sabot rounds,(kinetic energy penetration) triple-based powders.   HOWEVER, yes - I was in and used black powder when firing!

You see, every tank main gun round (and artillery and naval guns, too I believe) uses about 1 to 1.5 pounds of black powder as the igniting charge!  So yes, I AM old enough that we used BP!



(If you're interested: the main gun round is fired by about 1.5 volts DC, which ignites the BP ignition charge, which sets off the main propellant, which is (depending on the type of round - there are 4) usually 30-45 pounds of Alliant's finest powder, both double & triple-based.) (And no, for reasons of security, those are NOT exact figures. But you can probably find it online.)


With that kind of charge, the main gun projectiles - which weigh from 20 to 35 pounds, (again - depending on the type) go moseying downrange at speeds from 2,800 to OVER 5,500 FPS!

And those rounds, due to the heat of ignition and friction WILL crystallize petroleum lube, if left in quantity in the bore & chamber!

[Percussion Pete]

Hard to think of 1.5 lbs of BP as just the ignition. That's a load.

What do they use for BP?

[Crow Choker]

I'll 2nd what John Boy posted that if synthetic oil was a good gun lube, ya would hear more about it  and what Dick Dastardly posted about two different lubes for two different missions. As for me, I'll use motor oil for my carbon burning motors.

[Stillwater]

<snip>
In my enviroment, WD-40 works fine to displace moisture, dissolve accumated lubes and protect metal during the shooting season.

<snip>

Regards,
Slim

WD-40 means Water Dispersant, 40th iteration...

Bill

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Hard to think of 1.5 lbs of BP as just the ignition. That's a load.

What do they use for BP?

Pete, I don't know what brand or granulation the BP they use is - sorry.  In our Master Gunner Course classes, they didn't go that far into detail.

[Drayton Calhoun]

I've used the 'Synthetic Sperm Whale Oil' Dixie sells. Even smells fishy. Seems to work pretty well, only thing is, where do they find the synthetic sperm whales?

[Dick Dastardly]

Ho Drayton Calhoun,

I'm thinkn' 'em synthetic sperm whales swim in the synthetic ocean and are near hunted to extinction by synthetic whalers harpooning them with synthetic pointed sticks. . .

Of course, some synthetic pinko liberals will soon catch on to this legitimate trade and try to shut it down.  Come to think of it, 'em are the same ones that drive nails in trees, smoke wacky weed and try to ban guns.  Best we keep this to ourselves else another fine product will be banned.

DD-DLoS

[Drayton Calhoun]

Ho Drayton Calhoun,

I'm thinkn' 'em synthetic sperm whales swim in the synthetic ocean and are near hunted to extinction by synthetic whalers harpooning them with synthetic pointed sticks. . .

Of course, some synthetic pinko liberals will soon catch on to this legitimate trade and try to shut it down.  Come to think of it, 'em are the same ones that drive nails in trees, smoke wacky weed and try to ban guns.  Best we keep this to ourselves else another fine product will be banned.

DD-DLoS

Ain't it the truth! Remember the old song, Coalition to ban coalitions? People for the Ethical Treatment of Synthetic Animals...