Shooting CAS, Circa 1900 as a retired grunt.

[smoke]

A couple of years back I had to sell off a lot of guns and gear.  Now I'm trying to get back into the game but with restrictions...not a lot of $$ .   

The persona will be a recently retired E-5 shorlty after the SAW.  This make the uniform part easy.  Guns will be what would be what is avialable new.  I am undecided between a Marlin or repop Winchester 92.  I have located a couple of refinished original Winchesters that might work also.  For handguns though, I'm thinking that an old noncom might have a couple of "lost" issue guns put away.  Maybe artillary Colts?  Shotgun, 97 of course. 

My real question concerns leather/canvas gun gear.  What would be period correct,SASS approved and believalbe for the persona?  More liberated SAW gear?  New leather?

I kinda like this persona/era as opposed to my past post CW era even though I really like all the C&B,conversions,opentops, Henry's etc.  I'm about the right age...(50 is just about in short gun range!) and I really like the era, Krags,early Colt DA's etc.

Any thoughts or input that you guys have would be appreciated.

Thanks!

[Major Matt Lewis]

You could take it a lot of ways.  A retired E-5 (Army Sergeant???) would likely have the means to procure civilian leather.  If you want a literary reference, the book Cowboys in Uniform, talks exclusively about the Rough Riders.  But, they were all volunteers.  Not someone to retire from.  As a grunt, assuming you mean infantry, that would not be for you.  So, you need to make some decisions.  Authentic or not, More civilian or military?  ect....

Now, I think that a lot of military guys may be like me, I am a Reservist, and I find myself having a hard time putting on a uniform to shoot CAS, so your character may want to do away with the uniform, especially a retiree....food for though.

[Trailrider]

You would probably use "regular" civilian leather.  That would probably include some form of Mexican loop holsters and either ranger-type belts or one-piece belts.  These would be hold-overs from the 19th Century, with perhaps a bit more leather cut away, exposing the hammer spur, but not much of the recoil shield.  See "Packing Iron".  You might use a military-style rig, presuming you either "lost" it when you retired, or another, legitimate explaination is that you bought it from Schyler, Graham & Hartley or Bannerman, depending on the the latter went into business.  There were a number of surplus stores selling military gear. Another thought popped into my fevered brow...  As a sergeant, probably a "bunkie" of a company or regimental saddler, you might have had them make up some civilian style leather for you prior to retiring.  Also, if you had served in the Phillipines, you might have had leather made up at the Manilla Arsenal (Maestranza de Manilla).

In other words, you've got a wide, wide choice. 

[smoke]

Major,Trailrider,

thanks for the insights. For me an important part of this game is the persona/history part of it.  I enjoy it much more when it is consistant and believable.   

I'm not up to speed on pay scales back then but I would think that it wasn't too good.  I'm thinking this guy spent most if not all of his pay as he got it.  He's getting out after 25 or so years.  Maybe he enlisted after Custer got it and has stayed in.  Now he is headed down to Old Mexico for some more adventure.  So his kit is a bit of left over issued clothing,boots, hat(cheap for me to aquire) and issued gear he has aquirred.  Again  I need to keep my cost down and using off the shelf stuff from vendors will help.

I do like the idea of some saddler made gear mixed in with modified issue gear.  I do need to pick up the books you guys mentioned.

[Drydock]

I  would reccomend "Cowboys  in Uniform"  by  JC Stewart.  While the Rough Riders were  indeed volenteers,  their equipment and  accoutrements were  cavalry standard issue  for the period, and  would give you  many  ideas of  what you might want to wear and carry.  A pair of M1884 Trousers and the  blue flannel pull over shirt would be a fine shooting  outfit.  Work boots and leggings, a Mills belt, pouch and an M1881 mod  5 holster for your Artillery model colt.

Lots of useful information here:   http://www.history.army.mil/html/museums/uniforms/survey_uwa.pdf

Here is something you might find very useful for CAS shooting.  Its roughly the right period, and can hold pistol  cartridges and shotgun shells as needed   http://onlinemilitaria.net/shopexd.asp?id=4649

[Adirondack Jack]

Nothin would be more period correct for leather than a Slim Jim holster made (for real or as if) it was simply a flap holster that had met up with a sharp knife.  Add a battered black leather belt and away ya go.

[US Scout]

The persona will be a recently retired E-5 shorlty after the SAW. 

Retirement at this time was based on age and sometimes health, not time in service, so you'd still have number of good years left to wear the uniform.   

You may want to consider being still in service and add a few personal sidearms, such as the rifle and shotgun (shotguns weren't issued for combat use until WWI, though many companies had a shotgun for hunting) since you're an NCO and could afford them.  You could be an aging 3-stripe sergeant but more likely - assuming you didn't spend too much time in the guardhouse - you'd be a senior NCO: a 1st Sgt, Sgt Maj, QM Sgt, etc living the life of luxury with your own private room in the barracks.

Remember that "lost" equipment and firearms came out of your pay unless you could document that they were lost due to enemy action, and even that didn't work in some cases.  Those who lost their firearms could also be punished for carelessness. 

US Scout
Brig Gen, GAF

[pony express]

Just my thoughts, but during most of you characters' career, weren't the military issue uniforms and equipment considered somewhat"second rate" by the troops, I have read that when on campaign, those that could affoer to often wore a lot of civilian clothes, and saved the issue uniforms for garrison duty. (At least during the earlier indian wars period) So it seems to me that a retiring Sergeant would probably just put away all his army issue and wear regular civilian clothes.

[Drydock]

True, but by the late 1880/early 1890s that was no longer the case,  at  the time he's talking about its extremely rare to find  anything  other  than issue in the field.

[cpt dan blodgett]

I sort of struggle with the same issue with a slightly narrower time band.  In real life I was a captain of infanty.  When cut I bleed infantry blue and really want to use both my infantry blue shoulder boards and have crossed rifles rather than the civil wa hunting horn.  So I need stuff after 1875 and prior to the change of Infantry colors to white 1882 till like 1902.  We need to make several concessions to SASS such as 2 pistols.  Several have suggested black issue holsters with the flap cut off and a black belt that is probably the least expensive way to go.  Retired you can easily use a mix.  A mills belt may not be a bad idea.

[Drydock]

I would be remiss not to suggest, look for GAF  folks you can  shoot  with.  Then you can use period military gear and weapons with no compromises.  Perhaps ask to try a GAF class at your local  SASS/NCOWS club.  Fewer weapons to start out with,  and spectators love it!   I  shoot GAF at our local SASS club, and folks are always asking questions.

[Niederlander]

I would be remiss not to suggest, look for GAF  folks you can  shoot  with.  Then you can use period military gear and weapons with no compromises.  Perhaps ask to try a GAF class at your local  SASS/NCOWS club.  Fewer weapons to start out with,  and spectators love it!   I  shoot GAF at our local SASS club, and folks are always asking questions.

We're a very small club, so we put regular CAS shooters with GAF shooters with no problems at all.  Next year we're probably going to go to all knock-down targets that are all must-hit targets as well.  We started out as the typical CAS club and now we're converting over to the GAF format.  Ya gotta love it!

[Major Matt Lewis]

Captain Blodgett,

Trailride has made my holsters for years.  I have him make the flaps thin, so when I want to look proper, I can, but when I want to be competitive, the flap is easily tucked under the belt and out of the way.

I have won 3 SASS State Championships and the Iron Trooper using his holsters....

[Fiddler Green]

In 1916, when Lt. George Patton led the expedition that killed "General" Julio Cardenas and two of his men, he was wearing Colt 1873 Army Models in "custom" leather holsters. They were regular belt holsters with no flaps and would be legal under SASS rules.

BTW: At the time of the fight, Paton had two SSA's. One was an Army issue SSA and one was his own custom SSA (Serial Number 332088) he was also carrying a Colt Model 1908 .380 auto pistol. Patton was credited with killing Cardenas in a brief exchange of fire, in the street. Patton said he killed Cardenas with the Army issue SSA.

While Patton's Custom Colt SSA would go on into history and, along with most of the General's firearms, find it's rightfull place in the Patton Museum, the SSA he carried that day was an issue gun and returned to the armory and forever lost to history.