Walker + Swiss

[Percussion Pete]

I thought i'd take the warthog thing to the next level. So, i'm going to get a Walker next week.

All I have is Swiss 2F. I know the Walker has a max load of 60 gr. I haven't shot the Swiss yet. I read it has more power than the Goex i'm used to. What do you guys think I should use for a max load in the Walker?

Anybody use Walkers in CAS? I know i'll have to use some rawhide ties for the loading arms. Any other problems?

Maybe the Dragoon might be a better choice? I want a couple of boomers.

[hellgate]

Latch fix:
To repost an answer from 1997 CAS-L: " File a small notch in the business end of the latch spring so there is a
small "step" that engages the loading lever. (Frank Leaman suggested this
approach years ago.)
Tex, SASS #4"
Frank Leaman is a genius and card shark/magician. I've met him.
I've done this on both of my Uberti Walkers and neither has dropped a latch in about 5 matches I have shot them in since. The "step" is pretty touchy. If you make it too deep the latch won't come down at all and if there is too little step the fix won't work. The business end of the spring is rounded and you take a little off the upper end (toward the barrel) so when the spring snaps in place as the lever is lifted there is a more abrupt lip that it has to climb over for the rammer to come down. I bought an extra spring from Uberti before I got out the file.
Another suggestion is to lighten your loads to lessen recoil. If you insist on shooting heavy loads (50-55grs FFFg) if you are lucky all you will get is a crushed wedge that opens up the gap. You'll think your gun is really blasting but all you are getting is lost power blowing out the cylinder gap. New wedges will be in order. If you are unlucky, you will get the cylinder pin backing out of the frame or stretching of the wedge cutout. Lots of $$$ to fix. Drop the load down to 35-45grs.
Another way to reduce the recoil is to change to FFg powder. It is slower but has a smoother pressure peak.
A third suggestion is to hold the gun more firmly to prevent barrel lift from recoil. I'm not sure what effect that will actually have. If you DON'T grip the gun firmly the barrel tips right down due to the weight.
My Walker load is 44grs of FFg+lube wad+.454RB+grease on top. It's called a .44-44.
Hellgate

[Hangtown Frye]

I've used my Walker and Dragoon together in the Plainsman matches, as well as regular matches at Cowboy Action shoots many times, and I love them.  I use full-power loads (can't see why anyone would bother with half-pint loads in anything, frankly), usually 50 grain in the Walker and 45 in the Dragoon, and indeed, as your Walker wears, you will have the disconcerting issue of the lever dropping on you with some regularity.  I solved it by purchasing the front part of a 1st Model Dragoon loading lever and the latch, and then dovetailing it into the barrel of the Walker.  Keeps it in place just like on a Dragoon, but you have a longer barrel to help with the balance and velocity!

What is most interesting is that a study of the original Walkers out there will show that a large portion of them had this sort of modification done to them at some point in their working lives.  Some had the barrels bobbed to boot, but most just had a latch added to the front of the loading lever.  Certainly makes sense after using them repeatedly!

Check out the originals from the Houston Gun Collector's Show in 2003, entitled appropriately "Parade of Walkers".  They got every Walker they could manage to find to put on display. Amazing collection there!  

http://www.tgca.net/Parade_of_Walkers_2003.htm

Enjoy!

(BTW Frank Leman modified my Walker too, but in a somewhat different manner. Frank is a magician when it comes to this sort of thing!)

Gordon

[hellgate]

Mr Frye,
That was the best "parade" I've seen in a loooooong time. I see what you mean about all the modifications that were done. Especially interesting were the many dovetail rear sights right forward of the cylinder on quite a few.

[Hangtown Frye]

Happy to oblige, Mr. Hellgate!  Glad that you enjoyed it. I go to that site pretty regularly just to drool... It also makes me want to shoot my Walker more often. 

Cheers!

Gordon

[Percussion Pete]

One question about the grips. I have pretty big paws, and small grips don't work for me. I always wanted some 51's but they don't fit. Even an 1860 is tight for me.

So, i've never held a Walker or Dragoon. I look at the square TG with suspicion. The Dragoons look like smaller frames/grips. The Whitneyville looks like a cross between the Walker and Dragoon.

How do they compare to the 1860 for comfort and room for my paws?

Thanks for the help Pards.

[will52100]

I know what you mean by big hands, my meat hooks are on the large size too.  The walker and dragoon grips fit great.  Never did understand why the 73' peacemaker used the navy grip instead of the larger army grip.

I normaly shoot mine with a full house load of 50 grains, used to shoot 60 grains but have switched to conicle bullets and can't get 60 grains in it unless I use round balls.  I did have one walkers arbor get loose, the locking pin in the rear of the arbor was backing out under recoil.  A slightly larger locking pin, and lock tight on the arbor threads and haven't had a problem with it since.  I have had to replace a couple wedges and pien the wedge slot on the barrel once to tighten everything back up.  After all that the bigest problem I curently have is keeping the screws from backing out, haven't wanted to put lock tight on them yet.

They are a blast, but I have been shooting the whitnyville dragoons more lately, slightly lighter and better ballanced and nearly as powerfull.  The whitneyville dragoons were made from left over walker parts, that's why the grip is the same.  Basicly a walker with a slightly shorter cylinder and loading leaver latch.

[Crow Choker]

     First off, To you Sir Hangtown Frye, because you posted that website with the 'Parade of Walkers' and I viewed it, my t-shirt and top portion of my jeans are wet with 'drool' . Thanks for posting, would like to see em' in person, but would probably take a 'slicker' in with me!!!! Nice guns!!!!!!!!
     Regarding grips and 'meaty paws', I have large hands and find both the '60 Army and 2nd and 3rd Model Dragoon grip frames comfortable. I have a 51' squareback model 36 caliber and find it a little tight, but have learned to live with it. I haven't held a Walker for some time, nor held it and one of it's cousins(the Dragoons) hand in hand for comparison. From what I've read and in comparing pictures, there is a slight difference in grip frames. The Walker and it's half-brother , the Whitneyville-Hartford Dragoon (or as some call it, the 'Transitional Dragoon') used a grip frame that evolved from the Paterson revolver. The 'Transitional Dragoon used up parts left over from the Walkers. When Sam Colt brought out the 1st Model Dragoon, he changed the angle and lines of the grip frame and grips. You can see it if you compare pictures. This grip is from where the 1851 Colt Navy and then the '73 Peacemaker' evolved from. Two excellant books on the early Colts are Dennis Adlers "Colt Single Action' and James Servan's 'Colt Firearms From 1836'. Servans is out of print, but you can find copies on e-bay and other book web-sites. The Walkers and the Whitneyville-Hartford Dragoon appear to have more room between the grip frame and trigger guard. Someone with more information may want to 'weigh in' on this. The best and most reliable way to go is to try to find a shooter/shooters or gunshop with all the various models and 'try em on fer size' yourself before buying. Ref. from what will52100 wrote regarding the '73 Peacemaker grip, I too prefer the '60 Army grip-can't understand why all the 'drooling' over the smaller Navy size grip. The Army style is more 'controllable' when shooting heavier loads. Can even sense it when shooting the different Ruger size frames.
     REf. the powder type and grains, I never shoot more than 40 grains in my 2nd Model Dragoon and get plenty of boom, smoke , and fire. I have gone down to 36, with good results, but shooting any more than 40 seems to be unneeded. I have shot up to 45+, but found it unneeded. I've never shot a Walker, but ya don't have to load them 'full-house' to get decent shooting and results. As Hellgate wrote, all your doing with the 'heavier' loads is "blowing gas out of the cylinder gap" and also your blowing unburned powder out of the end of the barrel. I've noticed the last instance up here in 'the north' when shooting over snow with both revolvers and muzzelloadin' rifles. You start shooting loads with the higher grains, the barrel isn't long enough to completely burn all the powder. When shooting over snow, the snow will become coated with unburned particles-waste of powder and $$$$. I like smoke and noise, but I like to guage my loads to where the chunk of lead I'm sendin' downrange hits, not how much I can 'intimidate' onlookers with smoke and noise. Toss some cherry-bombs and M-80's , that'll wake em up! I don't leave my guns sittin' in a case, but I won't overload em' and beat em' to death either. I load powder, greased wad, and ball. Seems to work good. Always use Goex FFF, did get some Schuetzen FFF a while back, but I don't think the higher price powders are needed at most pistol ranges. The 'big bore' rifle shooters say they can tell the difference, but at 25 yards or less, shooting off-hand, and if being timed, I don't think you'll see any difference. Might shoot cleaner, but black is still dirty business. This ends my 25 cents worth or my humble attempt at a "War and Peace" novel intro, but you all have a good day and safe shootin'! (To Mr Jubal Starbuck-I made all attempts and persevered to proof read for grammer, sentence structure , and spelling, but the little rascel gaffs always slip through!  )

[Cherokee Reb]

OK...looking through the "Parade of Walkers" I want a copy of the Co D , No 1.  Raven, where are you??

[Earl Brasse]

You're right, they do have a nice feel to the grip.

If you need any parts for Walkers I just posted a bunch of parts for sale over in the classified.  (Colt Signature Series, fit Uberti also)

If you are looking for a Colt Whitneyville Hartford Dragoon or a pair of them that you can build yourself, just shoot me a pm.  I have them & Dragoon parts that I'll post up with pics hopefully by the weekend.

[Pulp]

I don't like the rawhide thong, as it blocks that little bitty front sight.  The absolutely easiest fix is just remove the lever after loading, it's only one screw.  Then put it back on for reloading.  Not my idea, I'm not that smart, I saw it over on a HighRoad thread.

Regarding the heavier loads: be careful in SASS matches.  I chrono'd one of my Walkers with a 42-43 grain by weight, that's what my 45 grain spout throws, of FFFg.  Two of five were just OVER 1000fps, the other three were in the 990's.  If'n you ever came across a member of the Rules Police at a match, you could get DQ'd for illegal loads. 

If I ever get a second holster, I will shoot my Walker's in Gunfighter category.  At least once.

[Montana Slim]

Give 2F powder a try in these big boomers...with a full load the velocity will drop just a bit, you still get a lot of smoke, a big oom, and MORE flames....Personally, I wouldn't use Swiss for blasting away...it is roughly 2X the cost of other brands I use.

I have a Uberti 3rd Model Dragoon & it's a great shooter....but a lot of iron to pack around. I see why this was THE revolver to have on the early days on the plains or especially in the mountains.

Enjoy,
SLim

[Percussion Pete]

I use Swiss 2F (my first post) I can use more powder (more smoke) And it keeps the fps down. It still runs cleaner than any other 3F powder.

As for the leather thong to hold the loading arm up? It works perfect. I'm a point shooter and never look at the sights. As close as CAS targets are I could shoot from the hip and do most of the time. I find it easier, because the smoke doesn't block the targets. I also do the shotgun from the hip, and most of the time the rifle too. Remember the rifleman. 

[Noz]

Chaos Jumbles shoots a Dragoon on the left and a Walker on the right. I believe that he has gone down to about 45 grs or so. It's still enough that the TO cringes and the earth moves when the Walker speaks.