firing pin in a .22 1873 ?

[Alphawolf45]

I am building an 1873 ..I have the receiver and am making all the other parts..Working off pictures I find on the net and one book. This rifle will be a .22 but I dont understand what I am reading about the .22 firing pin..I understand the book to say that the large firing pin that the hammer strikes dont protrude through the breech pin face but that the firing pin strikes the inside end of the breechpin and drives it forward so that a bump on the forward face of the breechpin strikes the .22 cartridge rim and sets it off?...
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Does the forward face of the breechpin pivot or is it solid or what?....Hope I have made the question clear..Hope one of you guys can explain it to me..

[Alphawolf45]

 Reading past posts there are lot of sharp people here who know 1873s very well..But since .22s arent used by grownups in cowboy action shooting there wouldnt be a lot of guys who really know the 1873 .22...So if you know and can answer my question please pipe up....I aint there yet but anxious to learn how the firing pin works in the .22 1873....
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Ohhh to show I am serious about building a Win 1873, heres a picture of a rifle I built last spring ..Its a copy of my Marlin 1892 .22 rifle.. I used a rifled barrel blank and a storebought tubular magazine and its spring but made every single other part including all bolts and springs .Presently working on making some of the 1873 parts. Within a few weeks I'll need to be making the breechpin..As yet I cant figure out how the firing pin works in the .22. Betcha somebody here can tell me......

I even made the sights....

And I sand cast the bronze buttplate..

[Adirondack Jack]

I dunno how they do it, but if I was gonna do it, I'd use a 'trapped" firing pin with the offset striker needed to fire a rimfire and the FP would have a wide groove in it and be retained by a cross pin in the bolt.  Then a FP extension would go on back to the hammer....  the forward end of tbe breechpin would be solid, but it would have a hardened actual FP that protruded through a  hole in the breechface to actually fire the round.  You could even use a small machinist's "dowel pin" inserted into an offset hole in the nose of the "breech pin" as an actual FP.  The FP extension is operated by the hammer, strikes the breech pin, etc.

Alternately the nose of the bolt could be bored to accept a cup-shaped bushing with a hole in it, trapping a spring-returned FP inside the bushing. (see a ruger revolver diagram)  The back end of the pin would protrude into the "normal" FP bore, operated by a FP extension.

[Alphawolf45]

 Thanks for the reply Jack..Naturally I rather build it like the original if somebody will give me some insight what that is...And if not I may do something like youre suggesting....I've built several .22s, probably I can figure out something that will work well enough to suit my modest expectations.

Uhmmm, I am also building parts for an 1873 in .45 Colt and thinkling likely I'll eventually buy them stubby little .45 brass from you..I can make that carrier going by what I see in your pictures. Looks like you have a real winner...
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. I dont do the CAS thing, just plink in the backyard and tease myself that someday I'll try  cowboy action shooting..but I dont have the guns for it.....yet..

[Grizzly Adams]

If you can get hold of a copy of Winchester Lever Action Repeating Firearms, Volume 1, by Arthur Pirkle, he provides some detailed drawings and measurements of all of those parts.  If you can't find it, let me know and I will put the information up on this thread.

I am uncertain as to the "projection" he refers to, but the rest of the set up sounds a lot like the way the firing pin extension in the Uberti copy is retained - or was on the older rifles.  I have an 1866 Uberti in 22 LR and the firing pin set up is much like the larger caliber rifles.

[Alphawolf45]

G.Adams
I have that Pirkle book.. Specifically thats the reference that has me confuzzled...I see his picture and read his text and I dont know what he is trying to say.....

  But youve given me a lead .Possibly I can find schematics for the Uberti and if I get lucky and see their .22 breechpin that should be as close to authentic Winchester as I need for my humble standards..Thank you.....
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Another question if you dont mind............Centerfire this time............Arthur Pirkle says in his book that the original Winchester 1873 centerfire  firing pin tips measured 1/8 diameter !! .... I presume Uberti in their modern versions has reduced firing pin dia to perhaps .073 give or take..... Am I correct or do the  Ubertis retain the fat firing pin form?

[Pettifogger]

Ubertis are chambered for the .357.  So, they had to go to a more modern style small diameter firing pin tip.  I have a schematic of the Uberti .22 somewhere.  I'll try to find it.  I'm not a computer geek, so even if I find it I'm not sure how to get a copy to email.

[Alphawolf45]

 Pettifogger
Thanks, I am swapping emails with another fellow also building a couple 1873 rifles and he also was wondering about the diameter of the centerfire firing pin....Its best to copy an original when building but not possible this time..I appreciate the help I am getting from this forum.........................

.Now about that centerfire firing pin....Is this all true?.The original 1873s were made in 3 centerfire cartridges which are .44-40 , .38-40 , and .32-20 and the guns had the fat firing pin...And those original guns can today be fired -without modification-using cartridges manufactured today ?  ...............Which begs the question...Is it best/authentic to build an 1873 with the original fat firing pin if gun is chambered for the original cartridges.....?
I dont know what these questions might turn up..I have heard guys explain differences in primers between made today and those manufactured a hundred years ago..I am trying to sort through it all looking for practical information.I prefer authentic if I can do it.
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And Pettifogger, if you try to post picture of the Uberti rimfire firing pin, I  appreciate your effort..If you dont giterdone, dont sweat it, computers give me fits too...Points given for effort.

[Pettifogger]

On the top is a firing pin from a 73 made in 1876.  Below is the Uberti setup.  The original uses a one piece pin with a mechanical firing pin retractor.  The Uberti uses a two piece pin that is returned by a spring.  The tip on the original is .105", the Uberti is .095".

[Grizzly Adams]

Pretty much the same set up on the Uberti 22, but the tip of the firing pin is flat for the rimfire, and of course the firing pin hole in the bolt is off set from center.  By the way, Uberti uses the first style of carrier as described by Pirkle.

Heres a pic of the carrier:

[Alphawolf45]

 Grizzly Adams , Thankyou.. The fog clears I see it all now clearly...I really appreciate those pictures and text... I like that 2 piece firing pin. That is the way I will do it..I've built a pair of 1911s handguns with the rebounding firing pin, virtually same thing as the 2 piece firing pin youve shown...works very well.....Hey and thanks for the measurement on the firing pin diameter..I am good to go now..
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[John Taylor]

I have four breach bolts out of Win. 73s in 22 cal in the shop at this time.  Just to clue you in on the originals, there is no separate firing pin in the 22, it has a little hump on one side of the breach face. The toggle links have an elongated hole for the pin that goes through the block so the breach block can move when in the closed position. The rear portion of the "firing pin" is pined to the breach block with no room for movement in the block. The whole breach block is driven forward when the hammer strikes the rear portion of the firing pin and the little hump sets off the round. Not one of Winchesters better ideas. I will be making a new breach block for one of the rifles in the shop with a floating firing pin because the owner wants to shoot it. The other three are in for restore back to original.

[Alphawolf45]

John Taylor
  Aurthur Pirkle in writing his book explains it wrong and shows a drawing that is botched.... Your explanation makes good sense.....Now verify that I understand you correctly...The forward pin hole in the toggles is elongated giving the pin of the pin/breechpin slack to drive forward setting off the rimfire cartridge?  ...The hole in the Toggle links is elongated? Correct?
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Its tough building a gun without plans nor a complete example to copy....I am boogering the fit of the carrier lift lever as we speak, will be making a new one before I am done....But I am learning.

[John Taylor]

Maybe a picture will help. I pulled the link to the rear so the gap would show.
The bolt face on the 22

[Alphawolf45]

Thanks John.. I see it clearly now..I appreciate your help with this.