Trex to stop chain fire and lube?

Sundance · July 18, 2005, 06:58:30 PM

Anyone use this? Consists of veg fat and veg oil - nothing else. Note this product may only be available in the UK you guy's may have a similar cooking product under a different brand name.

Cuts Crooked · July 18, 2005, 07:55:17 PM

Yup! Only we call it Crisco on this side of the pond!

Sergeant Smokepole · July 19, 2005, 07:29:02 AM

Yep. Problem is that in warm weather, it is too thin. Also, after the first shot, it blows off the other chambers. I use this recipe: 3 pounds Crisco and 2 toilet seals (preferably unused).

Sundance · July 19, 2005, 05:44:15 PM

So I could mix in some beeswax to make it a bit thicker. All my shooting with BP indoors so no problem with it melting.
Compared to Remington Wonderlube does it foul up the barrel, and is it easy to clean the barrel after shooting? I would surmise it would be much the same.

Arcey · July 19, 2005, 06:43:31 PM

If it's nice 'n cool out, yer ok with it straight.

When I first started playin' with my Navy it was early spring 'n I gooped it up with straight Crisco, no problems. Then, I gooped it up one afternoon 'n left it sittin' on the loadin' table in the sun. Reckon it was twix eighty five er ninty out that day. When I went ta get the thing, it was sittin' in the middle of a puddle of salad oil - nothing left in the chambers.

I've been firmin' it up with candle wax ever since.

..

Sundance · July 19, 2005, 06:58:14 PM

For preventing chain fire and lubing the barrel I wonder what they would have used when cap and ball pistols were being used back in the 1800's?

Arcey · July 19, 2005, 07:29:53 PM

Reckon some used lard. Really ain't got a clue.

As fussy as Hickok was over his daily dress, I can't imagine he used anything gooey.............

Tangle Eye · July 19, 2005, 11:15:40 PM

Sundance I have an opinion on what they used for lube and to prevent chain fires. Now bear in mind I'm no definitive source but it all makes sense to me at least.

For lube - nothing. I can't think of a substance even today that would be a good lube material and still stay put on top of the ball in day-in day-out use over significant periods of time in a holster, pack, bag or whatever. Think about it - if you don't shoot much (and they didin't normally) then you didn't need the lube. And - if you were in a hurry and were shooting a lot (like in a battle) you really wouldn't have time to fool with it. Lube softens powder fouling - when shooting round balls thats about all it does.

As for chain fires - I'm convinced they come from loose caps or caps that have fallen off before that particular chamber is fired. Again - think about it: You seat the ball and a little circle of lead comes off. This indicates an absolute seal. I just don't believe a spark is getting into the cylinder in that direction. And - if a spark is strong enough to get around a lead ball sealing a cylinder and possibly a wad of compressed filler as well - a dab of grease ain't gonna stop it either. Now - if you have a cap loose or an uncapped and charged chamber I can easily see where a spark from a cap on the adjacent cylinder could cause big problems.

This may start a debate but I just don't think chain fires come from the front end of the cylinder.

Just my 2 cents worth (and with inflation it ain't even worth that!).

Sundance · July 20, 2005, 06:13:29 PM

Yes I concur, as you say the ball would seal the chamber. However I don't want to risk shooting without lubing the chambers just in case. Probably the most important is to make sure the caps your using fit your nipples correctly. I personally for the first six rounds always LIGHTLY squeeze the caps so I'm assured a tight fit.

Singing Bear · July 22, 2005, 01:53:34 AM

Well, I got 4 guns that'll tell anyone otherwise about chainfires from the front. They all have cylinders that shave nice round rings, but all have one or two out of round chambers that'll light off when in the right position. Having nice round rings or using larger balls won't help. The chamber mouth will only size them down the same. ASM and Pietta seem to have this problem with out of round chambers.

I use paper cartridges, so there is no lube or wads being used. If you get nice round rings and also use a wad and don't get chainfires from the front, well...........wads happen to be the cure for this problem.

I also use slightly massaged Treso nipples with CCI #11's and the caps fit nice and snug.

Remove the nipples, seat balls and hold a mini light to each chamber while looking through the nipple hole. I get lots of light in several of the chambers in several of the cylinders. This tells me that's where the sparks are going. I've since used wads, lubed or dry, and have not had any more problems with the chainfires from any of the problem guns.

I also have 6 guns that don't give me any grief with this problem and all shoot just fine with paper cartridges and no wads or lube. None show light between the ball and chamber walls.

My "good" guns are all from Cabelas and are Pietta and ASM. All purchased just about 7 years ago. All the problem guns seem to have been made much earlier, judging from the serial numbers. They are also Pietta and ASM.

Tangle Eye · July 23, 2005, 06:40:41 PM

Never thought of doing a "light" test like that Bear. Seems like a good idea.

El Paso Pete · July 23, 2005, 10:19:12 PM

Chain fires happen when the power in cylinder(s) not inline with the barrel is set off. Had one in my 58 Remington in 1960, scared the bejabbers out of me.

IMHO, the most important thing to stop chain firing is the nipples. They must be clean and new. They must be screwed in tight. The caps must fit them correctly.
The second is the condition of the cylinders. The bores must be smooth with no pitting.
The third thing is the ball or bullet, it must be swaged into the cylinder and have tight press fit.
The last line of defense is the lube, either a wonder wad or something of that type or grease on top of the ball.

I got tired of putting grease over the balls and tried the wonder wads. The wonder wads worked OK but they cost 6 cents each! One of reasons I like to shoot C&B is its low cost, cast your own lead balls, free, $10 a lb BP, 3 cents, Crisco, free if ya steal it from yer wife's kitchen, caps 3 cents. That put you at 6 cents a shot, 12 cents if you use a wonder wad.

I am in the process of testing what I call a ball bullet. They have a large lube groove, double sealing bands and weighs no more than a round ball in that caliber. These were design more for the open top Colt types that get their mechanic strength from the base pin. ROA and Remington type with top strap are much stronger and can shoot a heavier slug and there are some good bullets available for them now.

My plan is that these will be run through your lube sizer or pan lubed first with a good BP lube and stored in small tubes holding 5 or 6 of 'em.
When you load, put the power in, ram the ball bullet, cap and shoot.

First test looked good, I shot 100 shots in my 1860 with 22 grains of Goex 3F and no cleaning. It was able to shoot 1" groups at 5 yards at the end of the 100 shot string. This week I hope to continue to see how they work at 25 yards.

The 44 cal. version I had a mould made for as cast is .454 dia, lubed and sized to .452, it has a heel diameter of .447 to insure it starts squarely in a C&B cylinder, and weighs 143 grains.

These also look like they'll make a good low recoil gamer load for 45 Colt with 22 grains of BP and some filler. Low recoil, lots of smoke, a good boom, and good accuracy. They don't carry enough lube for a rifle and they're round nose too, but they carry enough lube to shoot in a pistol all day.