1887 Barrel length

[TomBullweed]

My original 1887 was wacked by someone from either 30" or 32" to 29".  Don't know why.  My gunsmith is giving it a go-thru and cutting the barrel to 28" to straighten this miscut and mount a new sight.  The longer barrel helps keep the muzzle down during recoil.
My question is for you experienced BP shotgun shooters.  Is my thought that longer barrel will provide more thorough powder burning valid, or does it matter?  My current load is with APP FFG since I cannot find real BP and I learned that Pyrodex is not a valid choice (from you other cowboys on this forum).

[Pettifogger]

Theoretically you get a better burn with a longer barrel.  At CAS ranges for cowboy shooting it doesn't make a bit of difference.  I've got several original and reproduction 87s with barrels from 18" to 30".  My personal favorite is a single extractor original with a 22" barrel.  Balances good, swings fast, and will take down any knockdown.  Also does real well on flyers.  You don't need heavy charges with CAS loads.  I use about (adjust powder charge to set shot column height) 50 grains by VOLUME equivalent of real BP, 777, or Pyrodex RS.  Heavy 70 or 80 grain charges will often blow out the patterns and actually perform worse than lighter loads.  I don't use much APP in shotguns anymore as it doesn't perform as well as the others with 50 grain loads.  I HATE Pyrodex in handguns and rifles.  However, I have found Pyrodex RS works very well in shotgun loads and is certainly a valid choice of propellant.  (It's also considerably cheaper than 777 and APP.)  Very consistent and plenty of power with a 50 grain load.  Only downside is if you live in a humid area.  Pyrodex needs to be cleaned soon after shooting or you can get rust fairly quickly.  Here in Arizona it's not an issue.

[Lucky R. K.]

I have had a lot of experience with black powder in shotguns but not the substitutes.  I currently shoot a 12 Ga. Stoeger Coach gun with 20" barrel and a lefever Nitro Special in 16 Ga. with an 18-1/2" barrel.  In my opinion the barrel length makes no difference for the cowboy game.

Lucky.  

[Montana Slim]

I use fibre wads in my shotshells...along with 80 gr of FF and nearly 1/18 oz of shot. This ensures good patetrn/punch for use in my two modern-made, short-barreled guns (1887 & hammer double).

Somewhat lighter BP loads (65 grains & 1 oz) give just as good performance in my long-barreled guns, including several originals.

My theory is the longer barrels improve pattern capability. The old guns seem to be better than the new-made guns in this regard. Could be a result of the choking & boring dimensions....the guns were designed for BP loads, you know.

Prefer my long gns...but, many stage designs just aren't made to accomodate staging there, so I've leaned toward using my modern and/or repro guns 99% of the time. Saves wear & tear as well, ensuring use by future generations.

Regards,
Slim

[Fingers McGee]

I used to use 70 gr of ffg real BP and APP; and a claybuster wads with 1 1/8 oz 7 1/2 shot for my CAS loads.  Tried a friends 50 gr ffg and a claybuster wad with 7/8 oz 8 1/2 shot, and noticed no difference in performance, even on birds.  This out of a 24" double, 20" '87, and 20" double.  I'm sure the lighter load would work as weel in my 30" 1889 Remington.  Just havent tried that one yet.

[Steel Horse Bailey]

My original 1887 was wacked by someone from either 30" or 32" to 29".  Don't know why.  My gunsmith is giving it a go-thru and cutting the barrel to 28" to straighten this miscut and mount a new sight.  The longer barrel helps keep the muzzle down during recoil.
My question is for you experienced BP shotgun shooters.  Is my thought that longer barrel will provide more thorough powder burning valid, or does it matter?  My current load is with APP FFG since I cannot find real BP and I learned that Pyrodex is not a valid choice (from you other cowboys on this forum).

Wow.  I don't know where some people get their ideas, Tom.  I know some folks have some screwy ideas, but for them to convince you that Pyrodex is "not a valid choice?"  Amazing.  I've shot dozens of pounds of Pyrodex since I started BP shooting in 1974/5 or so, and it most certainly IS a valid powder to use!   It's not the ideal powder, but it's certainly OK.  The only VALID (in my most humble Opinion - IMHO) complaint I've heard, and have, is that P'dex IS harder to ignite.  With percussion caps ... NOT modern primers!  It lights just FINE with regular or magnum primers, which you'll be using in those shootgun shells!

Jeez ...

As for the "extra" corrosiveness ... poppycock.  I'm sure that technically, it is a bit more corrosive under some conditions.  However, in our game, you have to clean your guns after a match.  Period.  (Under normal circumstances)  Do the same with P-dex and you'll not have any problems.

Your mileage may vary, of course! 

And NO, I don't work for Pyrodex or sell it anywhere ... I just shoot it if I need powder and don't have Goex.

TomBullweed, I'm NOT ranting at you - and I'm sorry if it sounds like it.  I'm just amazed at the way a little problem can go from a molehill to a mountain online here, causing newer BP loaders/shooters to make judgments without having the benefit of trying something out.   No matter WHAT you decide to do, Tom ... have FUN!  (And take what others say - including me - with a grain of salt.)

      

[Blackpowder Burn]

I've got to agree with Steel Horse here.  I started out using Pyrodex, because it was easily available locally.  I got quite good results out of it, even in my long range rifle.  I later switched to the real deal (Holy Black) because it was authentic, and less expensive.  But like he says, it works just fine and costs less than APP or 777.  It would be my first choice if I wasn't using real black.

Of course, I've been told I'm a little strange............

[Fairshake]

It is not hard to shoot real BP if you "WANT" to. There are several powder distributors that ship to your door. I have done that more than once. I now drive 5 1/2 hours round trip to buy my powder. I can buy a sub just three miles away. The reason is I shoot frontier cartridge class and not one of the subs is real BP. They are smokeless type powders with something added so that they smoke. All the subs from what I have seen and heard are corrosive. I live in Louisiana and we have lots of humidity. I shoot on Saturday and don't clean until about Tuesday with out a problem. Show me where in history that a group of men were shooting black powder and said that we were unable to fight after the first day because our guns were rusted shut by the powder. One BP of the day and by the way it was only called powder then stated that you only needed to clean if it would be months before shooting again.

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Even 'tho I said you need to clean after each shoot, I'll agree with Fairshake.   That's why I said "(Under normal circumstances)" in my original post.  (I was doing the YMMV thing.  Your Mileage May Vary)  I've gone as long as 8 months - purely by an accident of memory involving a US Military exercise that helped me forget that my 1860 Army hadn't yet been cleaned!  But the gun had been put away in a VERY dry storage area and was just fine.  I simply state that the cleaning of BP-encrusted powder residue can't be ignored, and for most, cleaning the same day is needed.  Lack of humidity helps, but even as Fairshake stated, the guns won't rust shut right away!

[Springfield Slim]

I don't know about any of the subs, haven't used any Pyrodex since 1982 when I built one of those kit 1851 pistols. Never used any other sub. But I shoot real BP 2-3 times a month, and the cleaning part is vastly overemphasized, IMHO. I have, on more than one occasion, shot a match, put the guns away in the safe, shot another match 2 weeks later, put the guns away, and then shot the first clubs match again 3 weeks later. Absolutely no sign of corrosion, barrels cleaned up as usual:  pour some water through the barrel, pull a wet boresnake through, oil with an oily patch on a jag. I live in the San Francisco Bay area, so it isn't that humid compared to most of you east coasters, but it isn't exactly Arizona either. Maybe using bullets with lots of lube that gets all over the gun helps, I don't know. But I stopped being paranoid about cleaning my guns as soon as I got home years ago. I still usually do it, but I don't have to if something comes up.

[Fairshake]

Louisiana being my home base is not short of" HUMIDITY" most days of summer have 80% or better. The best days are August when we have 100 degree days with 100% humidity.