Barrel Crude / Lead Flakes

Cemetery · September 02, 2010, 06:33:55 PM

Went to the range today to empty some brass filled with hellfire and brimstone.

Was shooting 25.20 filled with FFFg SWISS in a Winchester 1892

Also shot 44.40 filled with FFg GOEX in a Winchester 1873

Barrels got HOT HOT HOT!!!!!!!!

Anyway, upon returning home, cleaning duties ensued before popping a cap of a bottle containing an ice cold adult beverage. I do HOT water rinse of barrel from breach to muzzle. Then patch(es) of Windex w/vinegar mix. Dry patch. Then Balistol patch.

During the Windex patch, I noticed flakes of lead coming out on the patch.

I've never had this with my Uberti rifles, or Ruger revolvers.

Now, these bores are not in showroom condition, but is it simply some of the pitting grabbing lead as the boolit goes by?

Montana Slim · September 02, 2010, 09:43:13 PM

Quote from: Cemetery on September 02, 2010, 06:33:55 PM
...During the Windex patch, I noticed flakes of lead coming out on the patch.
I've never had this with my Uberti rifles, or Ruger revolvers.
Now, these bores are not in showroom condition, but is it simply some of the pitting grabbing lead as the boolit goes by?

I tend to agree with your conclusion. Although I typically see a very small amount of leading with my modern 44-40 Uberti rifles...and it comes out with simple dry and/or oiled patches. Never a concern for me.

Regards,
SLim

Crow Choker · September 02, 2010, 10:30:17 PM

Not real sure how 'hot' your loads are for the calibers you mentioned, as I don't load or shoot either one. Back in the days when I shot in Police competition/qualification using 38 Special lead wadcutters and semiWC, I would get alot of leading in the barrel. I was shooting a 357 Colt Trooper, but the boys shooting the S&W's would too. It would get worse as the powder charge was increased if I loaded any up. I think and its to my understanding that the condition is one of the downsides of shooting lead bullets and more so the softer the alloy and the 'hotter' the load. That's why I always use gas check hard cast bullets when used in handguns and rifles when used in smokeless higher velocity loads (I didn't really say that s.l. word, it just appears I did-don't throw me under the bus). If the condition is a persistent problem, try lowering the powder charge a little at a time and see if that stops the leading and/or if you cast your own bullets use a little harder bullet alloy (which you may not want to do with those BP calibers due to the need for bullet sealing upon firing).

Pettifogger · September 03, 2010, 12:01:46 AM

When its hot and dry I always get some lead flecks while cleaning. No big deal, they come right out. Not really "leading" as it isn't stuck in the bore. Also, if you are at a match and shoot ten rounds and then the gun sits for 45 minutes before the next stage you get little if any lead flecks. HOWEVER, if you are practicing and shoot a bunch of rounds quick the "HOT HOT HOT!!!!!!!!" barrel burns the lube lube lube out of the barrel and you will get more hard fouling including some lead.

Crow Choker · September 03, 2010, 04:37:22 PM

Sir Pettifogger: Excellent response. I wasn't thinking of Cemetery's problem along those lines. Was relating it to 'leading' using the propellant that came into fashion in the late 19th/early 20th centuries.(I didn't say the word). I can see how your explanation would occur. I've never had the problem using black, the majority of my black powder shooting is with cap an balls. I do load black in a '72 open top in 44 colt and have done some with 45 Colt, as of yet have not seen any of the flaking.

Cemetery · September 03, 2010, 09:58:59 PM

Quote from: Pettifogger on September 03, 2010, 12:01:46 AM
When its hot and dry I always get some lead flecks while cleaning. No big deal, they come right out. Not really "leading" as it isn't stuck in the bore. Also, if you are at a match and shoot ten rounds and then the gun sits for 45 minutes before the next stage you get little if any lead flecks. HOWEVER, if you are practicing and shoot a bunch of rounds quick the "HOT HOT HOT!!!!!!!!" barrel burns the lube lube lube out of the barrel and you will get more hard fouling including some lead.

Lack of lube lube lube seems to be the answer, now that I think of it. 25.20 don't hold much, if any, lube. And the 44.40 don't have much either, added to the 24" barrel.

Blackpowder Burn · September 04, 2010, 06:22:48 AM

Use a bullet with large lube grooves and use a soft black powder lube. When I do that, I don't get any leading, even here in South Texas during the summer. A soft bullet alloy is also best, as that allows the bullet to fully obturate and fill the bore. All I do is run a couple of patches with a 10:1 Ballistol/water mixture (aka Moose Milk) through the bore, followed by a pass with a bore snake and it is clean.

Doc Cuervo · September 06, 2010, 12:27:37 AM

Try a grease/lube cookie behind the bullet in the rifle ammo, it adds that extra needed lube and keeps the powder fouling soft.

Icebox Bob · September 06, 2010, 12:04:30 PM

Quote from: Doc Cuervo on September 06, 2010, 12:27:37 AM
Try a grease/lube cookie behind the bullet in the rifle ammo, it adds that extra needed lube and keeps the powder fouling soft.

Yup! I shoot a '73 musket version in 44-40 (that's a 30" barrel). I tried a few things before I was satisfied that lube was getting to the end of the barrel.

Now it's soft lead, soft lube on the bullet and a lubed wad with a wax paper circle over the powder. Takes a bit of time reloading cartridges but I get a very satisfactory result.