original 1873 32-20 questions about using BP to reload

[Don Nix]

I have my great grandfathers 1873 32-20 and I'd like to shoot it. i am thinking of reloading the ammo and I have a Lee hand loader  for the calibre. But I need ro know if the Lee recommended loads are safe for the old(1883) tifle.
I have never reloaded a cartridee with BP but I think that I would like to keep the laods on this rifle as close t the original as possible.
Can I use  pyrodex and how much. i have been told to just fill the case but that came from an source that i dont entirely trust.
I have also toyed with reloading my  1858 NMA converted 45s with  pyrodex.What is the recommended loading  on these.

[hellgate]

Two pards from my CAS club shoot the 32-20 all the time (Old#4 & Big Iron Buster). They use the Desperado brand bullet (not sure what weight) and real BP (not sure what charge). I do see the pards running wet patches through their bores during matches. BP pressures are no where as high as you would get if using smokeless.   I see no problem with using 15-20 grains of FFFg or FFg and lead bullets that have plenty of  BP compatible lube. The DD Big Lube 80gr bullet ought to  fill the bill too. (I do not have an interest in DD's or Desperado Bullets businesses). Read up on BP cartridge loading but in a nutshell, find the OAL (Over All Length) that reliably feeds through the gun with a case that wants to be full and the powder charge slightly compressed.

[Jefro]

Howdy Don, I have an original 32/20 mfg in 1887, great shooter. I would use real BP 3f with a bullet lubed for BP. Swab the bore with a wet patch after each stage, or use a Big Lube and keep shooting. Check out DJ's photo illustration in the Dark Art's for proper loading. Good Luck
DJ's Photo Illustration

Jefro

[Blackpowder Burn]

Don,

As Hellgate and Jefro have said, fill the case with 3F black powder until you slightly compress the powder when you seat the bullet.  DD's Big Lubes are hard to beat.  When you use them with a good soft BP lube (any will do, but his Pearl Lube is cheaper than others on the market and works well) the rifle will run indefinitely.  I use that combination with my 45 Colts, 44-40's, 38-55's and 45-70's and can shoot the rifles almost indefinitely before cleaning. The key is a soft bullet (20:1 or softer) and lots of soft lube to keep the fouling soft.  The Desperado Bullets are cast of the correct alloy, but don't really carry enough lube to keep the fouling as soft as it should be - you'll have to clean more frequently with it.

Same with the 45 Colt - fill the case with 2F or 3F black powder and have fun.

You'll find with a bullet as described above that the guns will clean up very easily.  A mixture of 10:1 Ballistol and water is all that's necessary.  I use no more than 4 patches to clean a revolver and 3 or 4 on my rifles and they are clean.  The water in the mixture (known as Moose Milk  ) will dissolve the fouling.  When the water evaporates the vegetable oil left behind lubricates and provides corrosion protection.  Hint - don't use any petroleum based products when cleaning and lubing guns you shoot black powder in - it forms a gunk that is hard to clean.  If you'll use a soft bullet, lots of lube and Ballistol you'll be amazed at how easy true black powder is to use and clean up.

[Don Nix]

This has been a great help. thanks.
next question,where do i get this lube and DD bullets

[hellgate]

biglube.com

The molds are gang molds (6 cavity). When you start out casting be sure to only fill 2 or 3 cavities until the mold get heated up ( about 5-10 pours). I have snapped the lever off when i forgot to start out slowlyin casting with the gang mold. In no time you will have 500 bullets to size and lube.

[john boy]

I have never reloaded a cartridee with BP but I think that I would like to keep the laods on this rifle as close t the original as possible.

Don, the original load for the 32-20 is: the 115gr bullet - 20gr FFFg powder @1250 fps
Lyman makes the 115gr mold if you are a caster #311008 ... a design that has been in existence for decades for the 32-20 caliber
Buffalo Arms sells this 115gr bullet, 1:20 alloy lubed with SPG ... http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/4,125.html

Can I use  pyrodex and how much.

Pyrodex is lighter in weight than blackpowder and weighs only about 70% as much as blackpowder. However, because Pyrodex yields more energy per pound than does blackpowder, the same volume (20grs) of Pyrodex gives similar performance to blackpowder

Put a vernier sight on your rifle (if there is not one on it originally) and the caliber will produce excellent out to 200yds

[Springfield Slim]

If you want to buy the bullets already cast, lubed and sized I carry both the 80 grain Big Lube design and the 120 grain Lyman design modified to carry more lube.

[Blackpowder Burn]

Slim casts a really nice bullet.  If you're not set up for casting and don't shoot large volumes of ammo, it would be more cost effective to buy bullets from him.

[w44wcf]

Don,
Neat rifle! Great advice from the pards.  A few notes:

1.) <modified for content>
2.) If the barrel is pitted or rough, you will get better results with Pyrodex or 777 as compared to b.p. in that you will be able to shoot many shots with the grouping staying pretty consistant without cleaning the barrel.

3.) I would suggest no more than about 1/16" compression if you use one of the subs. Take a fired case so that the bullet is a slip fit in the neck. Place enough powder into the case (tapping it a few times to settle it) so that when the bullet is pushed down with your fingers to touch the powder the o.a.l. of the cartridge is about 1/16" longer than the finished cartridge. Note the volume or weight of the powder and use that.

If using b.p. I would suggest a compresson of around .10" -.12" or so.

4.) IMPORTANT - if using Pyrodex, make sure that you clean the barrel throughly to avoid corrosion.  I use a 50/50 water /white vinegar mix which also works well to clean the cases.

Have fun making that vintage rifle talk once again.....................

w44wcf



     

[TomBullweed]

My '72 was made in 1889 (iron).  My '92 was made in 1902 (steel).  My Colt Bisley was made in 1902 (steel).  (modified for content that is not allowed on this forum)  Shooting BP can be fun, but there are costs that I am not willing to take unless necessary, like the BP-only laods in my original '87.

[Cuts Crooked]

Gang, please read the posted forum rules regarding discussion of smokeless loads in the Den.

[john boy]

Gang, please read the posted forum rules regarding discussion of smokeless loads in the Den.

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DISCLAIMER RELOADING:  We allow members the exchange of reloading ideas, techniques and loads. However, under NO circumstances does the publication of any specific load(s) on the board indicate a recommendation of data published. The caution(s) mentioned in the reloading manuals of starting 10% below any recommended load(s) and working your way up apply in spades! Both experienced and inexperienced reloaders, PLEASE consult the available commercial reloading manuals. It is easy to make mistakes when typing, so view any data published in a post with common sense and suspicion... If it doesn't sound right, it probably isn't! CasCity.com assumes NO responsibility for any loads published.
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http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,5477.0.html

and ... http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,7831.0.html

Is there another location respective to nitro based powder loading data?

[Cuts Crooked]

Gang, please read the posted forum rules regarding discussion of smokeless loads in the Den.

please note the part in bold IN THE DEN

Yes John Boy, in the forum rules for THE DARKSIDERS DEN.............  http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,7831.0.html ........ it s also mentioned in the "ATTENTION ALL DEN PATRONS" thread here: http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,20410.0.html Both of these threads are sticky's near the top of the opening page of the Den. You might note that the second one listed is one of the ones you listed.....it's very last thing mentioned on that post...read to the bottom.

This rule is "DEN" specific and has been in place for a couple of years now. The Marshal has no problem with this exception given the basic nature of the Den. There are lots of other places to discuss smokeless loads and I encourage anyone with a question or comment regarding smokeless to use those places, but such discussions are not permitted here. A couple of years back we had to institute this rule because smokeless threads were beginning to dominate the Den and some of them contained information that was downright dangerous, regarding C&B guns. And while old timers might be very safe from such erronious info some new guy, tragically,  might not be. At the time the rule was instituted there were no dissenting voices to the rule, indeed the only comments regarding it were positive. The feeling being that this is THE DARKSIDERS DEN, and given the plethora of other places available to discuss smokeless we should/could keep this one area "smoking only".

[john boy]

...will be adding a "No Smokeless discussion" rule to the forum rules thread.

Thanks Cuts - was in another thread.  Tis a good rule ...
Presume that we can still reference in the Den, BP loading data charts and powder charges that we use - Yes/No?

Here's a good example why the SASS Wire banned nitro powder loads too ... One fella argued that a 45 Colt case should be filled to the mouth because their was too much air space ... with RED DOT! 

[Cuts Crooked]

Presume that we can still reference in the Den, BP loading data charts and powder charges that we use - Yes/No?

ABSOLUTELY!!!!!!!!!!

[TomBullweed]

Sorry for trying to post too much info.  I did not know that the Den had different rules from the other forums.  It won't happen again from me.
My point was that I enjoy shooting BP and substitutes, but I feel that regular shooting is easier on the guns, especially the older ones with softer metals, with smokeless loads.   For guns that are not BO only, many manuals have soft shooting smokeless loads.