Fort Apache

[Silver Creek Slim]

I watched it last night. It is definitely a Ford classic. It may not be historically correct but good anyway. It is the first movie I have seen with Shirley Temple as a young lady. It was interesting to see the same character names used in Fort Apache and Rio Grande. For instance, John Wayne played Kirby York in both and the name Quincannon was used in both. Dick Foran played Quincannon in Fort Apache and Victor McLaglen play him in Rio Grande. Do y'all have any other observations you want to share?

Also, is She Wore a Yellow Ribbon the third movie in the Ford Cavalry Trilogy?

Slim

[Cheyenne]

I have all three, and yes, Yellow Ribbon is the third.  Fort Apache is loosely based on Custer, with Fonda's character being a composite of Custer, a General reduced in rank with little respect for the Indian as a fighting force, and wanting to get back in the limelight......lot of cross over there, at least as I see it.

Historically, though many soldiers fell to the Apache, I don't know of a massacre of a detachment as dipicted......now, the Lakota, yeah they kicked butt a couple of times, at Fort Phil Kearney and Little Big Horn, but the Army generally stood it's own the rest of the time.

I really wish they'd make a decent movie about the Fetterman Fight.....actually, if they'd get their heads out of their crevaces and take Terry Johnson's Plainman series, they could make several movies and follow most all of the major engagements from 1867 to 1879 or so!

[FloraBama Kid]

Oh yes, all great movies. I agree that the Fonda character was loosley based on Custer. I didn't pickup on the reuse of the names as Slim did but that is very interesting.

What I found to be very curious was after John Wayne was relieved and sent back to the wagons. Did you see how he was doing a ride-by giving his last words of encouragement to the troop before their battle. He then, without hesitation, took the wagon into a defensive position and watched the main battle.

Why didn't the troop fall back to the wagons? Just some thoughts. One of these days I'm gonna buy the DVDs so I can watch em over and over and over...

[Cheyenne]

I figure they couldn't make it back as they had no horses in the gulch.....the one JW tried to get Fonda NOT to go into......they may have made it by orderly retreating, but by the time Fonda got to what was left of the command, there just weren't enough men left to attempt it.....I always wondered why they did not take a defensive position on high ground, which was a pretty standard tactic and would have made it much harder for the Apaches to ride over them, but we are talking Hollywood, after all.

Had a conversation with a buddy about this movie and LBH, and the Beecher's Island fight.......movie and LBH we lost......movie, well, poor defensive position, overwhelming force and single shot rifles.....LBH, high ground, but again the overwhelming forces and single shot rifles come into play.....at Beecher's Island, Forsyth had 50 "Frontiersmen", and each had been armed with a Colt 1860 and a Spencer repeater......they faced overwhelming odds too, but had a fairly good defensive position, dug in and had the repeaters, which I belive had a lot to do with them coming out as well as they did.

Still think a good movie based on this fight would be good to see.

[Big Hext Finnigan]

Howdy..
(I may end up splitting this off, but..)

Do y'all think that we, I mean CASers could encourage, even fund, a movie or series of movies?  Seems like there are lots of good movies being made that go straight to video, or only come out on TV or just disappear.  Then there are the occasional blockbuster independants.

I don't know enough about movie making to really say, but it's a thought.. We'd have excellent technical advantages and we'd likely have a core audience. 

Any thoughts?  Adios,

[Cheyenne]

It could be done, but to do a 'professional' prodution would be a costly proposition.........just the editing is a whole bunch of money.  And when you start talking about an Idian war movie, well, for Fetterman, you'd need 81 soldiers and civilians, and between 1000 and 2000 Indians........you could take 250-500 indians and make it 'look' like a lot more, but then you need a professional cinamatographer......I'd bet 1/2 a Mill. would be minimum just top film it....then we gotta package it, promote it, and sell it.........still, it'd be fun.

[Big Hext Finnigan]

I know.. it's kind of a pipe dream, but you just see stuff like the Blair Witch and others.  There is a fair amount of film talent in the Texas area.  And you can always use computers for the casts of thousands.

For some vulture capitalist, a mil or two is nothing, on a possible payoff.  It's like penny stocks.  Also, if you can get some good stories going..

[Cheyenne]

Not saying it can't be done..........and it sure would be fun, but one thing about doing it in Texas, do a Texas story.....ever see "American Outlaws"?  That was filmed up in your neck of the woods....story about Jesse and Frank James.....that really stunk!  Guns were "OK", clothing was fair, story was BS and the scenery, well, it killed the movie......I've lived in Missouri and the Texas Hill country don't look anything like the area around Kearney, Liberty, or anywhere in Western Missouri.

Could do something on the 4th Cav and Comanches, or the 9th, but not a Fetterman or Lakota story.......we could probably get away with a Sand Creek story or Washita.......unless we take the John Ford approach, you know, he thought Monument Valley was good enough to be Texas.

[Cheyenne]

Might be Blasphemy, but how 'bout the Searchers, and get the correct look and terrain....it's still a good story. (if Fiction is OK)

'sides, remakes is a staple in Hollywierd....saw some theater fold outs come across the other night for "The Stepford Wives" which is coming out in June.

[Cheyenne]

Hext as Rev. Sam Clayton....Long Drink as Old Mose Harper.....

[Big Hext Finnigan]

I am clearly not worthy!
Still, we can go a bit west, just a few hours and it's flat and dry.  Even a bit further and we're in the Davis Mountains.  I'm just saying..

[Will Ketchum]

Speaking of great fights, what about the Wagon Box Fight or the Hayfield Fight?  In one of those a civilian had a Henry and supposedly killed over 300 hostiles.  I have thought about this and wondered why and how he would have carried that much ammuntion?  That's at least 6 boxs!  Also did his rifle get fouled?  How often did he wipe it?  I'll tell you this much that Henry got HOT

Will Ketchum

[Texas Lawdog]

To set the record straight, Rio Grande was the third of the trilogy.  It was made because John Ford wanted to The Quiet Man with the Duke and Maureen.  The studio would finance  The Quiet Man unless he made a thrid Movie wihich was Rio Grande

[Texas Lawdog]

Fort Apache was made in 1948, She wore a Yellow Ribbon was made 1949 and Rio Grande was made in 1950.  Rio Grande was also the first movie that the Duke and Maureen made together.  The Quiet Man was made in 1952.  Big Jake was the last movie that they made together.

[J.D.Cayhill]

Texas Lawdog is correct. It was a deal with Herbert Yates that John Ford had to make him three "Horse Operas" before he would finance The Quiet Man.

[Cheyenne]

Yeah, that is the correct order, but we weren't talking about when they were made.  Still they are all great movies and a lot better than Quiet Man anyway.

[Cheyenne]

When I said Yellow Ribbon is the third, I meant it was the thrid of the trilogy, not the third one made......it really don't matter.......I like Yellow Ribbon the best of the three.