1858 Pieta NIB Cylinder in 1/2 cock

russ1943 · July 04, 2022, 09:22:48 AM

Got this several years ago never used, was thinking about a conversion cylinder, taking the cylinder out and putting back problem with getting it back in hard to line up. When I got the cylinder back in, in 1/2 cock the cylinder just spins, this not right.

I think it is a hand spring problem, am I correct, or is it the hand?

Another question, what caliber would be recommended? Looking at 45LC or 45ACP, I think 44-40 the barrel is too big.

Thanks

Marshal Will Wingam · July 04, 2022, 10:00:52 AM

Your assessment sounds right that it is probably a broken handspring.

As to caliber, 45 ACP and 45 Colt are both .452. I don't know about the bore on a Pietta but Ubertis I've seen work better with .454 soft lead bullets.

A 45 Colt cylinder will give you more options. Some will allow 45 Schofield rounds, as well. If you want even shorter cartridges, the Cowboy 45 Specials, which are the same length as 45 ACP, will work in 45 Colt chambers and I've heard at least one shooter say he uses .455 Webley in them. You can also shorten the 45 Colt cases to the length of 45 Schofield and still have historically correct rounds because in 1878 the US Government changed the official specifications for 45 Colt to the same length (1.1" instead of 1.285") so they would work in Schofields, too (the head stamping still read 45 Colt).

45 ACP chambering will only allow 45 ACP rounds.

Abilene · July 04, 2022, 10:12:25 AM

If the cylinder advances when you point the gun down and cock it, but does not advance when you point the gun up and cock it, that would confirm the hand spring is broken.

russ1943 · July 04, 2022, 10:20:02 AM

The gun cocks fine both up and down, the problem in 1/2 cock loading position the cylinder spins free not stopping at the loading notch. The cylinder spins like the Ruger Vaqueros, made in larger frame guns back jn 1989.

Major 2 · July 04, 2022, 10:26:46 AM

Bolt spring? is my guess, weak or perhaps loose?

If you reload you can get 45 Auto Rim brass https://www.starlinebrass.com/45-auto-rim-brass

russ1943 · July 04, 2022, 10:46:09 AM

Got it almost apart, how do remove the Hammer and Hand does it slide down does not want to go in that direction, hammer too wide, do you remove the hand screw that screws into the hammer?

Marshal Will Wingam · July 04, 2022, 10:58:37 AM

Quote from: Major 2 on July 04, 2022, 10:26:46 AM
Bolt spring? is my guess, weak or perhaps loose?

Glad you mentioned that. I wasn't thinking but that's something to check.

Abilene · July 04, 2022, 11:14:56 AM

The bolt should not be involved at half-cock. Broken bolt spring would allow the cylinder to spin with the hammer down or at full cock.

russ1943 · July 04, 2022, 11:33:24 AM

Quote from: Marshal Will Wingam on July 04, 2022, 10:00:52 AM
Your assessment sounds right that it is probably a broken handspring.

As to caliber, 45 ACP and 45 Colt are both .452. I don't know about the bore on a Pietta but Ubertis I've seen work better with .454 soft lead bullets.

A 45 Colt cylinder will give you more options. Some will allow 45 Schofield rounds, as well. If you want even shorter cartridges, the Cowboy 45 Specials, which are the same length as 45 ACP, will work in 45 Colt chambers and I've heard at least one shooter say he uses .455 Webley in them. You can also shorten the 45 Colt cases to the length of 45 Schofield and still have historically correct rounds because in 1878 the US Government changed the official specifications for 45 Colt to the same length (1.1" instead of 1.285") so they would work in Schofields, too (the head stamping still read 45 Colt).

45 ACP chambering will only allow 45 ACP rounds.

I have lot of 45 ACP factory loads and once fired brass and only a few 45 LC. I must have sold all 45LC Brass or lost it in the move. I just got a 2nd Generation Colt in 45 looks like I will be in the market for 45's. So I assume the best option would be the 45 LC Conversion Cylinder?

russ1943 · July 04, 2022, 11:37:55 AM

Got it all back together, everything looked correct, so I just increased the tension on the hand spring, hope that will correct the problem.

Thanks for all the quick replies, greatly appreciate it. Happy 4th of July to all!

RJS

russ1943 · July 04, 2022, 11:44:48 AM

Well no go it still spins in 1/2 cock, but now I hear a faint clicking, I guessing the hand is too short?

What do you think?

Abilene · July 04, 2022, 01:31:09 PM

If the gun cocks and locks up fine, I wouldn't mess with the hand. It sounds like your hand spring is still too weak.

russ1943 · July 04, 2022, 03:36:17 PM

It was the hand spring, got her to work stops at lthe loading notch weak but stops. Looking at all my Colt SAA 1873 type the springs are all different. Does anyone know what the hand spring S/B and post a picture of it.

Again, thanks for all the help and have Happy 4th.

Marshal Will Wingam · July 04, 2022, 04:30:59 PM

I've had good results with handsprings made from piano wire. This one is .028 or .032, I believe. I just flatten the end and install it in the same groove as the original flat spring. I've never had a piano wire spring fail.

If I break a bolt spring, I replace that with one made of .050 piano wire. it's tough stuff to bend but when the job is done, they are more reliable.

Sorry I don't have photos of Remington parts with them but the methods are the same.

russ1943 · July 08, 2022, 09:38:11 AM

Quote from: Marshal Will Wingam on July 04, 2022, 04:30:59 PM
I've had good results with handsprings made from piano wire. This one is .028 or .032, I believe. I just flatten the end and install it in the same groove as the original flat spring. I've never had a piano wire spring fail.

If I break a bolt spring, I replace that with one made of .050 piano wire. it's tough stuff to bend but when the job is done, they are more reliable.

Sorry I don't have photos of Remington parts with them but the methods are the same.

THANKS
Nice I got a lot of hands with broken springs, I can custom make them now! GREAT

River City John · July 08, 2022, 11:08:47 AM

Quote from: Marshal Will Wingam on July 04, 2022, 04:30:59 PM
I've had good results with handsprings made from piano wire. This one is .028 or .032, I believe. I just flatten the end and install it in the same groove as the original flat spring. I've never had a piano wire spring fail.

If I break a bolt spring, I replace that with one made of .050 piano wire. it's tough stuff to bend but when the job is done, they are more reliable.

Sorry I don't have photos of Remington parts with them but the methods are the same.

Plus every time you cock your piece it plays a tune . . .

Marshal Will Wingam · July 08, 2022, 11:44:50 AM

Quote from: russ1943 on July 08, 2022, 09:38:11 AM
THANKS
Nice I got a lot of hands with broken springs, I can custom make them now! GREAT

Here's a video on installing piano wire springs another way.

Quote from: River City John on July 08, 2022, 11:08:47 AM

Plus every time you cock your piece it plays a tune . . .

That puts a whole different meaning to "tuning" your action.

Cheyenne Logan · May 26, 2023, 01:03:57 PM

Thanks for the video Marshall Will, good idea but I think you method is as good and easier to pull off. Knew Michael Allee back in my Kansas days.....good gunsmith.

Marshal Will Wingam · May 26, 2023, 02:13:12 PM

Quote from: Cheyenne Logan on May 26, 2023, 01:03:57 PM
Thanks for the video Marshall Will, good idea but I think you method is as good and easier to pull off. Knew Michael Allee back in my Kansas days.....good gunsmith.

Thanks. I have yet to have one give up. It's crude but effective. I suppose a piano wire spring could be silver soldered into the groove if you couldn't get the groove to pinch it securely enough. A dot of solder would hold it forever.

How cool to have met him. I like his methods but never wanted to go to all that much work. They'll never fail, though.