Spencer 56-50 - "Pocket Howitzer"?

[Patrick Henry Brown]

I've been having a futile discussion over on the NCOWS Chambers about the 56-50 ballistics. It started as a discussion about using a Smith Carbine in NCOWS. The argument was raised that the Smith cartridge and the 56-50 will damage targets. My research tells me that the 56-50 in BP loads is no more potent than a well stoked smokeless 45LC in a similar rifle. Since the Smith uses essentially the same bullet and BP charge, the same should be true. So what say my fellow SSS members. I would love to see some real ballistic information from those that have perfected the 56-50 loading, with chronograph results and energy figures.

Am I wrong in my understanding. Seems to me that muzzle energy is muzzle energy, regardless of projectile weight, and that equal quantities of muzzle energy can only transfer that amount to any target no matter the projectile weight. So please enlighten me.

[Bead Swinger]

Fortunately, the laws of Physics were well designed , and they're not just a good idea.
I think you're right - muzzle energy is muzzle energy.

[Marshal Davis]

I also have a Spencer carbine and a Smith carbine. I've used em both at our NCOWS shoots here in Alabama.  You won't win any speed contest but I am there to have fun not test finger manipulation speed. Shooting those big 50 caliber slugs is fun at the max. Yes they do wallop the targets good and there is no doubt you hit it but I cannot tell if it really seems to hit any harder than a fully loaded BP round from a 45 rifle and a 250 Gr bullet. They do not mess up the target at all. I shoot 35 grs equivalent in both the Smith and the Spencer. We set a rule that if you are shooting a single shot rifle like a Smith you only have to fire half as many shots as the repeating rifle guys. If there are 8 shots to be fired at say four targets on a stage with the rifle then the single shot guy only has to shoot at each target once. That way you are not taking an inordinant amount of time just to get through the stage. Plus the Smith can start with the first round loaded so that all you have to do is cap it and then aim and fire for the first shot. I think using these single shot carbines along with a percussion revolver could give a whole new class of shooters a new game. For NCOWS it could be a new recruiting base as there are a lot of North South Skirmish Assn shooters who already shoot carbines and revolvers at their Civil War matches. Much of their shooting is done as a team event however and NCOWS could give them an opportunity to shoot in individual competition. They already have the guns and authentic clothing and footwear. Would seem to be a no brainer.  Call it a Veteran's class. By the way I read that the Pony Express was an early purchaser of some Smith carbines and they were carried by express riders and kept at relay stations for their short duration.

[.56/50 Iron]

Personally speaking, you aren't getting a true impression of what the Spencer .56/50 will do as long as it is not used with 40-42 grains of black powder and a 350 grain bullet. This load has left a pretty  good impression on me in so far as speed to the target and recoil is concerned. Wreck targets? I don't know what type of targets you shoot? Silhouettes? That .50 caliber slug seems to have good impact. With a reduced load of 35 grains you might be alright. All the shooting I have done so far with the Spencer carbine  has been without any chronographing as I got the carbine last winter. Chronographing will come when decent weather finally gets here in Wisconsin. The Spencer is in line along with an 1870 Sharps .50/70 and a Springfield Model 1866 2nd Allin Conversion rifle that I am working with. All need chronographing. Those old .50's were pretty potent and I can see how the original 1866 trapdoors raised hell at the Hayfield Fight and the Wagon Box fight in 1867. The Spencer is the least powerful of the 50's in its full loading
.56/50 Iron

[Marshal Davis]

Hey 56-50 Iron give us some chrono reports on your Spencer load I'm sure we'll all be waiting to see the results. I should have been a little more clear in my post. In my Spencer loads I am using a load of 35 to 36 grains of 3f Pinnacle powder which if I had a chrono would I feel compare favorably with any 40 to 42 grains of 2f Black load. We are shooting mostly 3/8" steel plates and they get walloped good with the Spencer loading and the Smith carbine load. But I havn't seen any evidence of the targets being torn up or anything. Our rifle targets are a little further out than the traditional SASS rifle targets at least the clubs aroound here anyway. Some of our rifle targets are 65 and 85 yards away. Thats on our short range. Our long range which is about to open will go out to at least 500 to 600 yards. Yes we'll try the little Spencer there also. You are also correct about the 50-70. It was a hell of a hunting round in its day and far superior to the Spencer carbine round. Buffalo Bill earned his name shooting a Springfield Allen conversion in 50-70. I also have a 50-70 Allen conversion with excellent bore I about to get started with. A gunsmith friend of mine has already warned me that when I start shooting that 50-70 I won't be shooting my 45-70's near as much.