Goex (Real Black Powder) I am not impressed...

[Percussion Pete]

``Shock & awe`` aside I think you`ll find that 99..99% of the shooters who use REAL BP do it because they want to recreate an historical moment. They love the history. I know I do.    

FWIW, 777 was developed for In Line muzzleloaders that are all the rage. In other words, for middle aged fat guys who are too lazy to crawl or get a little closer to kill a deer with BP & a round ball.  

I can't quite agree with that statement. No fat out of shape guy is going to hunt Elk in Colorado. Especially at 10,000 ft.

I stay in shape all year around for that one week of muzzleloading Elk season.

[Drayton Calhoun]

One other thing to think about, subs producing more power can have an even greater detrimental effect on the brass framed pistols. Real BP is getting harder to find in my area also.

[ZVP]

 I always use a reduced load in my Brass frame .44 Piettia Navy model.
I decided to use the same load I use in my '51 .36 Uberti London 22 grains of B/P.
I reduce the triple 7 load by 15% as suggested by the manufacturer, and if I load pyrodex I reduce it by 5 gr again, per mafucturers label instructions.
I think this is a pretty safe load for the brass frame and won't ever overstress it.
I also use Cream of Wheat as a filler so as to not leave an airspace with such reduced volume loads. If I don't use a filler, the rammer seems to bottom out and like I said dont want any airspace...
ZVP

[will52100]

Never did much playing around with subs, have always been able to get real black powder.  I used to use Goex, but after I had to start ordering it and tried other powders I left it behind.  Goex is OK, but not the best powder out there.  The best I'ved tried is Swiss, it's a true sporting powder, or express powder and about as close as we can get to what they were shooting in the 1870's or there abouts.  There was a lot of competition for a hot, clean burning powder then, kinda like there is now with smokless powder companies.  For general shooting and cas and everything I prefere Graf's black powder, which is realy shcutzen(spelling?) powder and for the price is hard to beat.  Goex always left a harder fouling and chrono'ed a bit slower for me.  I never tried goex express or cartrige though.

Most importanly, what ever you shoot, have fun.  To me the ocasional experiment with different powders and loads is fun.

[Grapeshot]

Yes!  BP under a 145 grain .451 Round ball held in place by friction usually is a mild shooting load because the ball doesn't offer much in resistance to the expanding gasses.

Try a 40 grain, compressed 2Fg Goex charge under a 250 grain cast lead bullet, be it a big lube or standard two lube grooved boolit, and you'll feel the ground move under your feet and the concussion will take your breath away.

[Percussion Pete]

I shot a CVA Accura today with a 350 gr Hornady FPB bullet and 150 gr of 777.

About knocked my hat off.

[Fingers McGee]

Try a 40 grain, compressed 2Fg Goex charge under a 250 grain cast lead bullet, be it a big lube or standard two lube grooved boolit, and you'll feel the ground move under your feet and the concussion will take your breath away.

Aint that the truth

Fingers (Show Me MO [real BP]  smoke) McGee

[Fairshake]

ZVP, If you want speed and power shoot shoot a 338. If you want to know how it felt to shoot a Winchester73 then use any brand of BP with the case filled with 36 grains of Swiss2F and a 210 gr bullet. Load a 12 ga with about 80 grs of 2F and so on. You need to do a lot of reading about BP and the SUBS. If you really want to be a BP shooter then the argument about being hard to find is not a good excuse. Most of the shooters on here either buy on their own or group buy and have it shipped. I drive 5 hours round trip to pick mine up as the distributor is a friend and gives me the time to visit. There are several books by Mike Venturino, Sam Falada, Steve Garbe, and others. Buffalo Arms, Powder INC., Back Creek Gun Store, Maine powder supply, and Grafs who ship BP to your door. The subs like Pyrodex will rust a gun over nite in certain conditions. As far as to the power of BP it can differ from lot to lot not just companies or grain size. I have never seen a sub powder produce fire and sparks but then I don't shoot with that group.You also can not use a bullet designed for smokeless as the lube grooves are way too small and will cause some terrible cleaning. It takes a extra drive in a man who wants to shoot BP. You put more time into each step than a smokeless gun shooter. You have to use extra steps for cleaning and loading of the guns and the brass. But if you have the correct wants and are not scared to be different then you will be a member of the best shooting group around.

[Percussion Pete]

Fairshake,

Being different comes easy for me.

I'm more scared to be like everybody else.