Who's actually PC?

[kflach]

It seems like most of the period clothing available over the Internet is made by Wahmaker, Scully RangeWear or Frontier Classics. I haven't seen any of them claim to be 100% period correct, but they certainly seem to be what a whole lot of people wear when doing CAS. I'm wondering, how close to truly period correct are these? I'm sure it varies some from shirt model to shirt model (or pants), but are they generally close?

[St. George]

More will be added by others, I'm sure - but any of these offer a very 'basic' outfit that 'you' can improve upon with the changing of buttons, removal of tags, and so on and so forth.

Much has been written about and posted both here and on the 'NCOWS Forum' - so do some digging and you'll see some favorite suppliers' names repeated.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

['Monterrey' Jack Brass]

Kflach – greetings again mon ami, hope all is well.

I recommend you might consider making your own duds. If you get good patterns and good material you can do whatever you want to do.

To make sewing your own stuff even more fun and focused - once you get the hang of sewing, and it isn't as hard as you might think – you can use your patterns to specialize in certain types of clothing by slightly modifying the patterns.

Below is an example of making patterns work for you by changing them up a bit. Maria and I are at a living history event in Michigan set up as c1880 recreational hunters, the wall tent in the background is our camp. On an aside, we had a great time interfacing with the public and even had a chance to go small game hunting on state land just beyond where this picture was made. Anyway, I digress. The point of posting the wetplate photograph below is to give an example that patterns can be what you want them to be. Or even if you don't change them to be something as specific as shown below, that making your own clothing is a great way to go and I highly recommend it.



I'm wearing a coat that I adapted from an 1860s civilian sack coat pattern (Past Patterns) to make, modifying it to be a brown canvas 'gunning coat' based on a detailed illustration in the 1879 Pribyl Brothers sporting goods catalog. The overall bottoms are made from an ACW trousers pattern (Charlie Childs RD) though modified to be period brown canvas overalls. Maria's jacket is made from a late 1870s cuirass pattern (Ageless Patterns) that we modified to be a jacket that matched one in an 1878 carte-de-visite of a lady in a hunting outfit. Skirt was the same thing (also Ageless Patterns). So the sky is the limit if you decide to make your own clothing. Plus it's fun to do with your frau, many cool projects you can work on together.

Brass

[kflach]

Brass, I'm actually quite pleased to report that I have a vest that was made for me from a period correct pattern by my wife (I don't remember where she got the pattern but we triple-checked to make sure it was PC), and I'll have a custom-fitted Frock Coat (from a "Laughing Moon" pattern IIRC) by Christmas! She's a custom dressmaker/tailor so they are/will be very well made (although she'll use modern equipment to put them together) and I'm quite excited about it. I've talked with her about teaching me basic sewing machine usage and that'll probably happen some day, but for now she sews and I fix computers, program VCRs and do the dishes.

That said, I was pleased to see that in some instances all I might need to do is replace buttons or remove labels. I've never been a big clothing guy (one of the things that's amazed my wife & daughter about my whole entry into CAS and NCOWS is that I actually care about my clothing) so I don't have an 'eye' like so many here do that can tell what's what on a piece of clothing. It's clear that developing the expertise that people like St. George or Delmonico have is a lifelong obsession <grin>. I'm constantly amazed as I read comments on pictures around here because I would never even begin to think of looking at this or that that; the detailed knowledge that people have around here is awe-inspiring.

Of course even with patterns there are challenges. The Laughing Moon Frock Coat pattern came in the other day so I've seen it, and my wife and I have looked through the historical commentary that came with it. It describes real Frock Coats as not having outer pockets on the seams between the part that covers my abdomen/chest and the skirt (I think that's what they called the lower part) but I've seen 'period-correct" Frock coats for sale online that do have pockets there. Instead it comes with pockets that are inside the skirt of the coat. I'm not sure how that's going to work out, but my wife understands the pattern so I guess I'll find out within a couple of months. I'd prefer the pockets to be outside - that seems much more practical - and she's more than capable of adapting the pattern and adding outside pockets. Anyways...

That's part of what motivated this post. I've begun a journey that'll probably last a long time. Between now and the journey's end I want to be pretty sure that what I buy is at least Level I but preferably Level II of our NCOWS Levels of Authenticity. Until I develop my own expertise (which could be a long time) I'm wondering who I can genuinely rely on to keep me "in the ballpark."

[River City John]

Frontier Classics has my vote for edging out the other two. Simply because they use sewn on buttons on their pants, rather than the metal riveted-post type. The waist is cut a bit higher, too.

For shirts and coats I prefer the products from James Country Mercantile out of Missouri, Jean Marsh proprietor.

RCJ

[Delmonico]

Frontier Classics has my vote for edging out the other two. Simply because they use sewn on buttons on their pants, rather than the metal riveted-post type. The waist is cut a bit higher, too.

For shirts and coats I prefer the products from James Country Mercantile out of Missouri, Jean Marsh proprietor.

RCJ

Jon, only part of them have the buttons.  That's the worst flaw in most of the pants from these companies.  Still not sure if it was done or not.

BTW Skully Range Wear and Wah are the same company, Scully owns both, Wah is made in the US, Scully Rangewear is made overseas.

[WaddWatsonEllis]

Hi,

Just a bit of background ....

I volunteer with the Old Sacramento Living History Program.

In old Sac is a shop where many of the reenactors buy their clothing ...

Doug and Joanne (pronounced Jo-anne) own and run the place ...

And Joanne IS Laughing Moon Patterns ... and is an accomplished seamstress in her own right ...

I am going to have one of the seamstresses in my Living History Program make me three frock coats and pants ... suit each in Black, Grey and Tan ... since the minors liked to dress up when they came to town, a frock coat and pants, with a vest and white highcollard shirt and tie, would be a normal city clothing .... and since the frock coat remained basically unchanged from 1850 until ALbert's death had its effect in the 1880s, one is pretty safe starting with that for townie clothing .... the real money comes in the boots and the hats ... a pair of period boots runs at least $200 and may go on up to $300 ... thread counters may demand one piece fronts for the boots, but my feeling is that an antique set of spur straps will cover the joint of the boot and make a pair of black simple trucker's boots look antique ... I actually have had good luck buying from estate sales on Craigslist for boots ...

Hats are another story .... one sees a lot of bull rider Tom Mix style hats at SASS get togethers, but they are about 50 years too new ... low, flat brim hats are pretty much the 1850 norm all the way up and through the 1880s/1890s ... and on th plains I agree with Delmonico that a cowboy  or miner probably wore what he had until it was unable to be repaired any more ... and would only get a new hat at his next fling in town ... repeating the habit of wearing it until it was no longer functional ....

And I am sure that others will have strong feelings about what I have said ... I can only answer that this is my own opiion and am entitled to one .... LOL

[River City John]

Jon, only part of them have the buttons.  That's the worst flaw in most of the pants from these companies.  Still not sure if it was done or not.

BTW Skully Range Wear and Wah are the same company, Scully owns both, Wah is made in the US, Scully Rangewear is made overseas.

Delmonico, it must've been pure luck of the draw then as the two pair of pants that I own that you guided me to try on were Frontier, and both have sewn buttons. I am very pleased with them.

Gonna need a little explanation on the statement I italicized. We've known each other some time now, but I cannot finnish your sentences for you.

[Delmonico]

I meant the riveted on buttons, although the modern ones are a bit different than the riveted buttons of the time period as used on bib overalls and some jackets.

['Monterrey' Jack Brass]

Kflach, if you and the frau are having fun sewing and making nice stuff that's all that matters, that is excellent to hear. I wish you the best with your projects and that you enjoy the fruits of your hard work.

Brass

[WaddWatsonEllis]

I forgot to put the link to Laughing Moon Patterns (and Sacramento City Dry Goods as well)

http://www.lafnmoon.com/

www.saccitydrygoods.com


The Dry Good site is fun to peruse ... and besides a nice discount for being a local reenactor, I don't have to pay shipping .... which offsets the CA tax ....

Enjoy!

[Dr. Bob]

kflach,

I have bought a lot of clothing from James Country Mercantile.  They have several ladies that sew their clothing right here in the good old USA.  Jean [Warren] and her husband Del do a great job using good period patterns and fabrics.  Jean will also get things made from fabric that you supply if you find something that you like.

     http://www.jamescountry.com/sitemap.html

     816-781-9473

Jean is always at the NCOWS Convention. 

[kflach]

Thanks for the link to James country. Since my wife sews professionally and runs her own business, she's not always available to do stuff for me. Sometimes she has to work so we can pay our bills. <grin> That link is a nice back up to have.

In the meantime, it looks from this thread that buttons are more of an issue than shirt or pants styles when purchasing ready-to-wear clothing. It seems obvious that they didn't use plastic buttons back in our time period. Are there any other caveats I should look for?



BTW, I just looked at the James Country web site and see they sell buttons and fabric. That's good to know if I need to replace anything...